Re: New Langage "Tyl-Seok": Similar ideas? (Was: Translation pattern of `to have'?)

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:24:41 +0100 Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
writes:
> Hi!
>
> Tommie L Powell <tommiepowell@...> writes:
>
> > I also am currently constructing a conlang that's isolating, has
> > no copula, is very regular and has active case marking.  (It
> isn't
> > All-Noun, but is All-Noun except for modifiers.)
>
> Interesting.  We could compare some of our languages' properties.
> My
> new conlang is called Tyl-Seok (meaning `elegant language/tongue').
My conlang doesn't have a name yet.

> Tyl-Seok briefly is like this:
>   - isolating, active case marking, no copula, totally regular
Same here.

>   - no numbers, no genders/classes, no marked cases
Same here.

>   - SVO (agent to the left, patient to the right)
Same here.

>   - agency based on (potential) control
Same here.

>   - word categories: nouns and particles
Nouns and modifiers here.  (My conlang has no particles.)

>    - if a noun has non-zero valence, they may be thought of as
>     verbs (but needn't)
In my conlang, nouns can have prefixes but modifiers can't.
Each prefix relates its noun to a preceding noun, and some
of the prefixes may be thought of as verbs.

>   - no concord
Same here.

>   - basically two grammar rules:
>        a) how to attach an agent:  put it to the left
>        b) how to attach a patient: put it to the right
>     Of course, the usage has to be clarified in detail...
My conlang has about a dozen word-order rules,
and its word-order rules completely control its grammar.

>   - tenses, moods, aspects, etc. are not grammatical, but may be
>     marked using additional `verbs'
My conlang's tenses, moods and aspects are expressed as
modifiers of the prefixes which may be interpreted as verbs.
As in your conlang, they aren't grammatical (meaning that
they may be omitted).  They aren't marked, but are identified
as being such modifiers by obeying certain word-order rules.

>   - principle is underspecification and context
Same here.

>   - embedding structure: composed phrase (e.g. relative clauses)
>     are handled like nouns
Same here.

>   - uses no labial phonemes; neither labial consonants nor rounded
>     vowels:
>     vowels:     [i E a i= V=  u- V]
>                 (i e a y  w   u  o)
>     diphthongs: [EV u-i Ei Vu-]
>                 (eo ui  ei ou)
>     consonants: [t s n l k x N ? h]
>                 [? h] do not occur at ends of words
>                 [N]   does not occur at beginnings of words
>     clusters:   [ts kx nt Nk]
>     syllables:  CV+(C+(V(C)))
My conlang uses 7 consonants (p,t,k,w,n,y,s) and
2 vowels (e,o).  Each syllable consists of a single
consonant followed by a single vowel, so my
conlang has 7x2 = 14 syllables.

>   - mostly monosyllabic, but occasionally bisyllabic stems
In my conlang, each prefix consists of one syllable and
each noun or modifier consists of 2 syllables.  A noun
is always prefixed unless it appears in a position which
the word-order rules never let any modifier be in, and
modifiers are never prefixed, so each 2-syllable
combination can serve as both a noun and a modifier
without any confusion.  So, since my conlang has
14 syllables, it can have a total of 14 prefixes plus
14x14 = 196 nouns plus 14x14 = 196 modifiers.

>   - pitch accent (regular: lower pitch on first syllable of
>     bisyllabic words).
>   - no tones (I'm thinking about this one.  Maybe the
>     pitch accent is removed in favor of tones, as I like
>     them so much.  If so, there will be three absolute
>     tones: 11 33 55 in IPA)
My conlang's prefixes aren't accented.  In each noun
or modifier, the first syllable is accented.  I don't care
whether the accentuation is made by pitch and/or tone
and/or loudness and/or vowel elongation.

> Tyl-Seok has no proto language and (almost) no imagined history:
> all
> phenomena occuring in grammar or word composition are still
> productive.  Tyl-Seok is a modern language (not yet) spoken on
> Earth
> that is constructed *now* with no languages to borrow from.  It is
> invented on the northern hemisphere (e.g. `sun' also means
> `south').
> It is meant to be an artlang with the purpose of being fun to be
> created and spoken.
My conlang is meant to serve a practical purpose, but
I don't wish to discuss that purpose until the conlang
is so nearly complete that I can demonstrate that it
really can serve that purpose despite having no more
than 14+196+196 = 406 morphemes.

> I'll post details as soon as I'm sure about them.
> Any comments/questions so far?
>
> **Henrik
>
Is your method of handling the absence of a copula
related to your method of embedding structure?
If so, how?  (Mine is, and I'd be shocked but thrilled
if you've hit upon the same sort of solution as I did.)
**Tommie

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