Re: CHAT letter names (was: CHAT Etruscana etc)

 --- "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...> wrote: > On
Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 07:51:26PM +1100, Tristan
> McLeay wrote:
> > > No, no - that _is_ dialect variation or
> ideoloect
> > > variation.
> >
> > Isn't that exactly what I said? I think I might be
> > confused?
>
> The original message said that the letters have
> standard pronunciations
> everywhere, modulo 'lect variations.  Ray pointed
> out that Z (/zi/ vs
> /zEd/) was an exception.  You cited H (/ejtS/ vs
> /hejtS/) as an
> additional exception, but Ray pointed out that it's
> not one because that
> difference falls under the "'lect variations"
> umbrella.
Oh. I think. I'm still a wee bit confused. How come
zee/zed isn't a lect variation, but haich/aich is?
It's not as if h-dropping dialects say aich and
h-keeping ones say haich, so it can't be ignored in
the same way that /Ar/ vs /a:/ is.*

* Another change to letter names is that it's become
quite common to say [a:r] even when there isn't a
conveniently placed vowel after the letter. This one
is interesting because it defies the phonology
(phonemising it as /a:r@/ and calling upon
schwa-dropping can't account for it, because schwas
can't be dropped word-finally; in fact, they tend to
become [a] there, not to mention the fact that it
mostly occurs in careful speech). It seems to be
motivated by the same thing that's popularised haich:
It means the sound the letter refers to is in the name
of the letter.

> > /hy:/? When did ypsilon come about?
>
> The name "ypsilon" is a contraction of the
> descriptive phrase "y psilon"
> = "simple y", and would be pronounced with an
> initial /h/ anyway by
> Greek rules of the time.  Ditto for "epsilon".   For
> that matter, "o
> micron" is "short o", contrasted with "o mega" =
> "long o".
So if upsilon is a simple y, what's a complicated one?
(I presume a complicated e is an eta).

> > The American way of singing the alphabet, I think,
> kinda requires zee,
> > but another version has come up when I was in
> grade six that works
> > just as well with zed as zee, but is used
> primarily on the grounds
> > that it doesn't trip up around elemenope (my
> younger brother was for a
> > while convinced there was a letter men,
> f'rinstance).
>
> ObConlang: the "Twinkle, Twinkle" tune works pretty
> well for singing the
> E-o alphabet:
>
> A B C Ĉ D E F                   /a bo tso tSo do E
> fo/
> G Ĝ H Ĥ I J Ĵ                   /go dZo ho xo i
> jo Zo/
> K L M N O P R                   /ko lo mo no o po
> ro/
> S Ŝ T U Ŭ V Z                   /so So to u wo vo
> zo/
> L'alfabeton diris mi            /lalfabEton diris
> mi/
> Ĉu nun povas ludi ni?           /tSu nun povas ludi
> ni/
Bah. Silly E-o. Only fools give letters such similar
names. What happens what tso, tSo, so and So merge
word initially but remain distinct word-finally? (I
guess we get haich, don't we?)

--
Tristan.

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