Velar Laterals (was: Yet another ASCII-IPA scheme...)

Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Herman Miller <hmiller@...> writes:
>
> On Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:54:11 +0100, Jörg Rhiemeier
> <joerg.rhiemeier@...> wrote:
>
> > >(The palatal and velar laterals in the IPA chart are really
> > >palatal_ized_ and velar_ized_ ones, if you ask me, and are thus
> > >rendered [l_j] and [l_G], respectively.)
> >
> > One of my old languages, Devérrin, has an actual velar (not velarized)
> > lateral.
>
> I have read in more than one source that laterals are always coronal,
> and I have no idea how to produce a velar lateral either.
This is what I do. Position your tongue as if you were going to utter
a [k] sound. Then release laterally. The sound produced is reminiscent
of the laterally released velar ejective found in Zulu. If one can
release a velar sound laterally, why shouldn't it be possible to make
a velar lateral?

> Are you sure
> about it really being a *velar* lateral?  Many phoneticists judge a
> velar lateral impossible, give or take an IPA symbol for it.
> But well, one can add symbols for palatal and velar laterals,
> no problem.
The view that laterals are only found at coronal places of articulation
is an outdated view among the phoneticians of today. Some Papuan and
East Chadic languages have been found with contrasting velar laterals.
According to the book "The Sounds of the World's Languages" by Peter
Ladefoged, who I consider to be a very competent phonetician, velar
laterals are phonemic in Mid-Waghi, Kanite and Melpa, (all Papuan
languages), and they contrast with laterals at other places of
articulation.

I quote fromt the book: "The precise location of the contact and of the
lateral escape channel for the velar cannot be recorded by direct
palatography since the closure is too far back, but with an open vowel
before and after a velar lateral it is possible to see both the central
velar closure and the lateral opening simply by looking into the
speaker's mouth."

In short... they do exist.

-kristian- 8)