Re: Yet another ASCII-IPA scheme...

Herman Miller <hmiller@...> writes:

On Fri, 9 Nov 2001 00:54:11 +0100, Jörg Rhiemeier
<joerg.rhiemeier@...> wrote:

> >(The palatal and velar laterals in the IPA chart are really
> >palatal_ized_ and velar_ized_ ones, if you ask me, and are thus
> >rendered [l_j] and [l_G], respectively.)
>
> One of my old languages, Devérrin, has an actual velar (not velarized)
> lateral.
I have read in more than one source that laterals are always coronal,
and I have no idea how to produce a velar lateral either.  Are you sure
about it really being a *velar* lateral?  Many phoneticists judge a
velar lateral impossible, give or take an IPA symbol for it.
But well, one can add symbols for palatal and velar laterals,
no problem.

>       Since I didn't have an IPA symbol for it (this was before the
> small-capital-L started showing up on the IPA charts), I used the pound
> sign {£}, which at least looks like some variety of {L}.
The pound sign, however, is non-ASCII.

>       It doesn't
> contrast phonemically with a velarized "l", but it doesn't sound like one
> either (more like a cross between "l" and the American "r" sound;
> I think I actually used "lr" as a romanized spelling).
Well, all of my attempts producing a velar lateral ended up yielding
a velarized one.  Your `cross between "l" and the American "r" sound'
would probably be a co-articulation of both, i.e. a velarized lateral.

> >Vowels   Front     Central    Back
> >
> >Close    i  y       *i *u    "i  u
> >              I  Y          U
> >Close-mid   e "o     *e *o   "e  o
> >                        @
> >Open-mid       E "O   *E *O  "E  O
> >                &       *a
> >Open              a "a        A *A
>
> This use of the " mark with the vowels reminds me of the American phonetic
> tradition of using umlauts on the vowels to switch them between front and
> back (for instance, using {ï} for the turned-m high unrounded back vowel).
> I have no idea whether they still teach this, but at least it has a
> historical precedent. You could also use ["u] for IPA [y].
I have seen the same convention in articles of Finno-Ugrian languages,
some of which have back unrounded as well as front rounded vowels,
and that's where I took it from.  It doesn't surprise me that it is
used somewhere else as well, because it is quite convenient.
And regarding ["u] for [y], this makes the scheme more logical,
and I find it perfectly acceptable.

>       Two things that
> doesn't quite fit are ["a] for the rounded equivalent of [a], and [*A] for
> a non-central vowel.
I am perfectly aware that the low vowel symbols don't fit the rest,
and indeed I am not happy with it.

>       If you use B. Philip Jonsson's suggestion of [6] for
> the low back rounded vowel (which I adopted for later versions of KPA),
> you could then have ["6] for the small capital OE ligature.
This would give the following bottom line:

        a  "6    "a   6

with [A] as an alternative for ["a] in the same way as [y] is an
alternative for ["u].  Yes, that's certainly a better solution.  Thanks!

Jörg.

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