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Re: Middle Welsh (was Cein)

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Saturday, June 2, 2001, 15:55
----- Original Message -----
From: <kam@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: Middle Welsh (was Cein)


> >>> Anyway. The A is marked with the preposition _o_ which has > >>> the meaning 'from, of'. Example: > >> > >>> kymryt o Arthur y daryan eureit > >>> take from Arthur the shield golden > > > "Of." O = poss. "of," not "from." "Taking of Arthur the golden
shield."
> > I.e., Arthur's taking [of] the golden shield; > > I'd say "taking by A. of the shield" > > I have to disagree with you here. On another thread, Ray has said that > in Romance langs phrases with "de" or some other preposition took the > place of the old genitive case. This didn't happen in Celtic langs, the > noun ceased to marked for genitive, but the _genitive construction_ (i.e. > marking by word order) continues. e.g.
I can't remember, at this point, kam@CARROT, who said what. But I'm not denying that this is a genitive construction. "Taking *by* Arthur only clarifies its meaning a little bit in modern English. The genitive clearly indicates some kind of agency used this way. It's definitely "taking of Arthur," no question about it. Interesting stuff snipped.
> > It's a very gerundial prose style which has earned it all sorts > > of mixed praise for its "quaintness" and "stasis," > I find it a very vivid idiom for describing a sequence of actions that > flow one into the next -- not in the least quaint, and certainly the very > opposite of static.
Oh I agree with you. I was quoting loosely from old critics of Welsh. And my students on first encountering it. Where have you done your study of Celtic languages?
> > "The gods have retractible claws." > Very, very true, my household gods send their greetings to you, "mew"!
Firrimby! Sally Caves scaves@frontiernet.net

Replies

Sally Caves <scaves@...>
John Cowan <cowan@...>