Re: Translation challenge: Fiat lingua

And Rosta wrote:
> What does "fiat lingua" literally mean in Latin?
Unfortunately, there is not a simple answer. One problem is that Latin
lacks definite & indefinite articles. So, in the nature of natlangs, it
depends upon context, often non-linguistic context.

In the context of the slogan on the Conlang T-shirt (which I assume is
what Sai means), it is presumably:
"Let a language come into being!" or, as 'fieri' also served as the
passive 'facere' (to make), it might better be translated: "Let a
language be made!"

> In other words, what
> meaning does matrix clause present subjunctive express? Desideration? Or
> more generally irrealis?
No, general irrealis is far too vague. It may express desideration, but
normally that meaning is marked in Latin by some word such as 'utinam'.
The normal meaning of the 3rd person present subjunctive as a main verb
is _jussive_, i.e. an imperative form directed at someone or something
other than the addressee, the 'third-person imperative'.

> And what does mainstream exegesis hold the textual meaning of "fiat lux"
> in Genesis to be?
The Septuagint has:
γενηθήτω φῶς
become-AORIST-IMP.3rd.SG light-NOM.SG = Let light come into being!

I do have a Hebrew version of the Pentateuch, but I do not know enough
Hebrew to comment on the Hebrew version, but the translation given is
simply: 'Let there be light!

> Does the act of wishing bring into being what is
> wished for? Or is the element of wishing lost, so that the illocutionary
> (perlocutionary) function is simply that of making itself true.
The Greek clearly has no sense of desideration or of wishing, otherwise
the optative mood would be used. It is unambiguously jussive.

The Latin subjunctive in such a context would also normally be jussive.
As I say, I am not competent to comment on the Hebrew; but the Greek
clearly (and the Latin almost as clearly) shows it to be a command. The
creator issues a command.

[snip]
> And lastly, does the translation challenge wish us to translate the
> literal meaning of the Latin, or to produce an analogue of how "fiat
> lux" in Genesis would be translated?
Surely it must be to translate the Conlang motto: "Let a language be
made!"  Or possibly "Let language be made!" taking 'lingua' as a mass noun.

The analog of Genesis "Fiat Lux" in Genesis 1:3 would be: "Let language
come into being!" - which is surely not very sensible, as language
actually did come into being many, many millennia ago   :)
=================================================

Sally Caves wrote:
[snip]
 > Well, exactly.  Elsewhere (Zompist--where the same request was posted) I
 > averred that it was a "performative" in Genesis: the utterance WAS the
 > creation of light, i.e., "making itself true,"

Well, yes, that surely is what is meant. The Creator commands & the
command is obeyed.

 >expressed in this present
 > subjunctive in the Vulgate, or as some have called it "cohortative."  Is
 > that the correct term?

No, the correct term is 'jussive' or 'third-person imperative'. The
'first-person imperative' (Let's go! - vamos!) is also known as the
'hortative'.

Neither Trask nor Crystal give 'cohortative' in their linguistic
dictionaries. But I believe the term is used of a lengthened form of the
imperfect in Hebrew, but I do not its use. The word sort of reminds me
of Roman cohorts     ;)

 >A command expressed in the third person.  Let him be imprisoned!

Precisely.

[snip]
 > "fiat lingua" as a performative: "be language!"  A distortion of the
 > original Latin.

I do not understand why it should be considered a _distortion_ of the
original Latin. In any case, which original Latin? Fiat lux..... fiat
firmamentum....fiat volunta tua... or what?

No, 'fiat lingua' is perfectly good Latin in its own right. But this was
discussed way back in the 3rd week of March this year when the slogan
was adopted.

--
Ray
==================================
ray@carolandray.plus.com
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
"A mind that thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language".
J.G. Hamann, 1760

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