Re: Translation challenge: Fiat lingua

Sally Caves wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "R A Brown" <ray@...>
[snip]
>> I do not understand why it should be considered a _distortion_ of the
>> original Latin. In any case, which original Latin? Fiat lux..... fiat
>> firmamentum....fiat volunta tua... or what?
>
>
> Ray,  I don't know what I meant by that tag.  Certainly I did not mean
> to imply that fiat lingua was a distortion of good Latin.  How could
> anyone who praises my general intelligence (when I'm not lapsing into
> senility) think that? :p
You lapsing into senility! I don't believe it, Sally - you're still a
youngster   ;)

[snip]
>
> I'm weary and tired and it's late.  And I think the cat hsat on the rug.
> Teonaht spelling and pronunciation. To be more precise, on a bunch of
> school papers in the corner.
Poor you! I have vague memories of such times.
=======================================

I was wrote my mail when I was tired, which is not a good thing 9for
example I wrote 'volunta tua' when I know perfectly well that it is
'voluntas tua'). I was rather abrupt & unfair in reply to And's:
"And lastly, does the translation challenge wish us to translate the
literal meaning of the Latin, or to produce an analogue of how "fiat
lux" in Genesis would be translated?"

The Latin has more than one literal meaning. But I was unfair in
responding to the analog part. In a Judaeo-Christian context, "Fiat
lingua" recalls scriptural FIATs, particularly the 'fiat' & 'fiant' in
the first chapter of genesis. i.e. it will be associated with
*creation*: "Let there be language!"

Now clearly that is nonsense in our 'real' world because language has
been around for many, many millennia. But Tolkien talks of the creation
of a [con]language as an act of sub-creation. Those who create their own
conworld can, of course, rightly say: "Let there be language."

But:
Sai Emrys wrote:
[snip]
 > On 7/7/06, Sai Emrys <sai@...> wrote:
 >
 >> Feel free to use a culturally appropriate analogue as you see fit.
 >
 >
 > I thought that was clear... but I'm asking for translation of fiat
 > *lingua*, not *lux*, and I'd like that aspect to be preserved in the
 > translation. (I obviously don't insist that 'language' and 'tongue' be
 > synonymous as here.)

Quite so. If one's language(s) is/are those of a conworld, then clearly
reference to Judaeo-Christian scriptures is not appropriate; but there
may be some other cultural analog in the conworld.

As I understand it Sai's challenge is to translate the Latin "Fiat
lingua", which can mean 'Let a language be made' or 'Let language be
made' but which, because in our culture, of its association with certain
phrases in the Judaeo-Christian scriptures, also has the idea of
sub-creation.

--
Ray
==================================
ray@carolandray.plus.com
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
"A mind that thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language".
J.G. Hamann, 1760

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