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Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Latins?)

From:Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
Date:Wednesday, February 22, 2006, 8:58
On 2/22/06, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
> I have a very lax, almost schwalike, [I] for both of those -
I've heard this sound called "schwi". (And I think I have it in "enthuse" and "inthuse" as well -- or in other, similar unstressed syllables.) On 2/22/06, Tristan Alexander McLeay <conlang@...> wrote:
> On 22/02/06, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote: > > On 2/21/06, Tristan Alexander McLeay <conlang@...> wrote: > > > > > infuse enthuse > > > I would consider them to be /Infju\:s/ vs /InTu\:s/ (with /fj/ vs /T/). > > > > Oh, good point. I missed that. I suppose some 'lects must have /Tju/ > > in the latter, but not mine.
(Mine does, FWIW.)
> I think it dies at the same time as /lj/ and /sj/ mostly do, so I'd > guess that conservative RP has it, but younger forms don't. Still, > having no idea what the word "thews" in the original list means, I > would read it as /Tju\:z/, which I have no problem saying, versus some > difficulty with word-initial [lj]
*nods* [lu:d] is easier to say for me than (what feels the most "correct" for my 'lect) [lju:d], for example.
> and an almost automatic change of > attempted [sj]->[S].
Word-initial only, or everywhere? Do you say [aSu:m], for example, for <assume>? What about <suit> -- [su:t], [sju:t] or [Su:t]?
> One of the distinctions between SE England + SAfE, AusE, NZE dialects > and most of the rest is that in the latter set, an EMnE /a/ (as it > "at") was lengthened before /f T s/ and was retracted (or at least > wasn't fronted) so that it's now quantitively and qualitively distinct > from the short a (called "the trap-bath split").
See also , which describes the situation in various places, as well as giving examples of words which have similar structure but where only one of each pair shifted the vowel.
> [fwiw, I grew up in a working-class suburb, but went to highschool in > a posh but state school so I never know how to say "castle"...])
Why, with [A:], of course :) *g* Cheers, -- Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>


Tristan Alexander McLeay <conlang@...>
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>