DANGER: Extremely many quotations!!! The main bit of this mail is at the
bottom, after the many quotations.
From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
To: "Carsten Becker" <post@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Again trigger & stuff
> Quoting Carsten Becker <post@...>:
>
> > From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
> > To: "Carsten Becker" <post@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 8:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: Again trigger & stuff
> >
> >
> > > Quoting Carsten Becker <post@...>:
> > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:50 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Again trigger & stuff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Quoting John Cowan <cowan@...>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Carsten Becker scripsit:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not related to the topic, what does "anadew(ism)" mean? I
didn't
> > find
> > > > it
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > the dictionary. And what does ObConlang mean?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Anadew" is an acronym for (the exact expansion varies) "A
natlang
> > also
> > > > > > does (it) even worse",
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe the original was "A Natlang's Already Dunnit, Except
Worse".
> > > >
> > > > Isn't that just nitpicking?
> > >
> > > No, on account of not claiming that John's expansion is wrong. I only
> > thought
> > > that the original form may have some, well, antiquarian interest,
> > especially
> > > to someone who hangs around on a mailing list devoted to language.
> > >
> > > > An explanation of what it means is enough. OK
> > > > then - enough explication, I understood what it means. And btw, your
and
> > > > John Cowan's explanation of what the letters mean actually only
differ
> > in
> > > > the chosen tense.
> > >
> > > I don't really agree to that. Of seven lexemes, two are outright
> > different -
> > > 'even' vs 'except', 'also' vs 'already'.
> > >
> > > > Well, but what about the original question?
> > >
> > > Which was? Anadew|ism and ObConlang has already been explained, if
memory
> > > serves.
> > >
> > > Andreas
> >
> > So I'm sorry then. Didn't read thoroughly enough again ... (it happens
again
> > and again and often, I'm a bit forward ("vorlaut", meaning you reply
before
> > you think about something or others can say something)).
>
> No worries.
>
> > Nevertheless,
> > please let's get back to the original topic (I mean the one with the
> > triggers and me having still problems with application. You know, the
long
> > part of the mail.). I still would like to know about that.
>
> I had kind of given up on triggeriness for the moment. I found the
"symmetric
> voice" interpretation pretty convincing, the concept of "precategorality"
less
> so, and still have not understood the objection to seeing the Tagalog
nominal
> marking as case. Some of the later pieces of the discussion rather went
beyond
> my theoretical horizon.
>
> Don't have your original mail left, so I can't try and answer any
particular
> questions. (Yes, I _could_ dig it out in the archive, but I'm too lazy for
> that 'mafraid.)
>
> > I hope you'll
> > forgive, too, that I reply directly to the list with the mail you've
sent me
> > to my private adress including.
>
> It was meant to go to the list - I just forgot to check the 'To' field.
You
> may want to change your mailer settings so that replies are not sent to
you
> personally as default.
>
> Andreas
>
Sorry for the long quotations etc., I hoped to send these mails to Andreas
*and* the Mailing List, but only one copy for Andreas reached. The field,
where to put in the answering adress if it differs from your email adress is
empty. So I don't know why my adress appeared automatically in the header. I
still don't know about what I wrote in the first mail:
<< Hello,
From a posting I sent to the Zompist Bulletin Board
(www.spinnoff.com/zbb) as well:
<< [...] I haven't got so much time at the moment. That's also why I stopped
working at Ayeri's grammar for the moment. I don't feel like conlanging at
the moment and I'm still waiting for a reply from our bboard member Tayanrai
(What's the matter? Why don't you write back? I'm waiting for some weeks
already! Or hasn't that pm been sent?) concerning Tagalog and how it manages
mediopassive constructions like "The soup cooks.", and I still must work on
my verbs. [...] I'm also a bit at a loss what to do when triggering
(focussing by a marker causes stress on one part of a sentence) something
where I actually wouldn't stress anything.
Is there always a focus in every sentence in Tagalog or other trigger
languages? Without trigger, you'd have something pretty much like SVO. I
understood how triggers work, but I've still got difficulties at applying
it. E.g. "I read a book." What would you stress when the sentence is meant
absolutely neutral? Note: In Ayeri, different than in Tagalog, verbs may be
stressed as well. I guess I'll end up with the rule "Neutral sentences
without any stress do not require a triggered argument"...
Conlanging can be so difficult [...] >>
Yep. What to do with those sentences you'd put in the "neutral" category?
If you wonder why I post this here, too: I do not think there isn't anyone
at
the ZBB who can answer this, but over there, only a few persons know about
trigger languages. Tayanrai's parents are native speakers by the way, and he
is learning Tagalog. >>
[snip]
Carsten