Re: German /OY/ (ex: Cloakroom)

On 14/05/08 17:41:34, Daniel Prohaska wrote:
> I would rather describe it as [OY]. I don’t think it’s wrong to
> describe it
> as [OI] as well, since a whole range of similar pronunciations can be
> heard.
> Though the second element of the diphthong is never as high as
> English
> /oi/.
> In German it’s more a case of the lip rounding of [O] being carried
> over
> into [I] making it [Y]. But people perceive the diphthong as /oi/,
> and
> spell
> it <eu> or <äu> according to the conventions. The Australian /@U/
> sounds to
> me as though it has a longer/heavier first element that the German
> diphthong, which has fairly even weight on both elements, at least in
> “Standard” pronunciation (broadcast, stage). The second element is
> also less
> tense in German.
Actually, Australian English /Ou\, &i/ are pretty even; /&O, Ae, oi/
are top-heavy and /i:/ is bottom-heavy. The difference is noticeable at
least to me; I consider e.g. German /ai/ to be "half way" between
English /&i/ and /Ae/.

On 14/05/08 20:26:11, Carsten Becker wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I've always transcribed the <eu> sound as /OI/, because that's how
> I'd
>
> perceive it. However, looking closely at my own pronunciation, it's
> more
> something like [OY_-] or [O1] I think. That is, the second part is
> [Y]-like, but
> not as rounded, especially before palatal consonants, like in <euch>
> or
> <euer>, which are [OY_-C] and [OY_-6]. Shall I make some recordings
> for you
> to analyse when I'm back home later today?
That would be good if you could, as well as the independent vowels /O/
and /Y/ and /I/. If you could do a video recording that would be
brilliant too.

On 14/05/08 23:00:36, Henrik Theiling wrote:

>I think it is
> evenly ok to write it /OI/, because the rounding weakens in the
> course
> of the diphthong, so at the end, I think there is almost no rounding
> anymore when I pronounce it.
Which is completely the opposite of what happens for Australian English
/Ou\/, but is similar to /oi/ --- it is perhaps the relative change in
rounding that is important. (Australian /O/ and the first part of /Ou\/
are only lightly rounded --- much less than for /o:/.)

--
Tristan.

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