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Re: Noimi Inverse Marking

From:Jeffrey Jones <jsjonesmiami@...>
Date:Wednesday, July 6, 2005, 8:03
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:22:24 -0500, Thomas Wier <trwier@...> wrote:
> > > A possible exception is when both 1st and 2nd person arguments occur; > > I'm not sure whether to use > > (a) a special A2 marker for 1st person acting on 2nd person, or > > In Algonquian languages, when the speech-act participants are > restricted to first and second person, special inverse forms > are used, which treat second person as higher in the hierarchy > than the first person, contrary to the generalization of > Silverstein's hierarchy: > > ke-wa:pam-i ke-wa:pam-ene >,2.DIR,2.INV > "You (sg) are looking at me." "I am looking at you."
This is consistent with what I recently found on an Ojibwe site you (singl.) see me - giwaabam i see you (singl.) - giwaabamin you (pl.) see me - giwaabamim i see you (pl.) - giwaabamininim The Potawatomi site I've looked at seems to have inconsistencies. The Algonquian method seems to be like (b); I got the idea of (a) from Miapimoquitch. For the second part, I'm leaning toward following the (Silverstein's -- I didn't remember the name for it) hierachy, since it makes more sense to me, and the 2nd-person-first way implies some connection to Algonquian.
> ke-wa:pam-i-pwa ke-wa:pam-ene-pwa >,2.DIR-2Pl,2.INV-2Pl > "Y'all are looking at me" "I am looking at y'all." > > The data is from Meskwaki, of course. I use '1,2' to > distinguish these from the regular direct and inverse > thematic markers that are used when a third person > participant is involved. Note how every verb form has > a second person prefix, whatever the grammatical function > of that prefix. > > > (b) a special A3/A1 marker for 2nd person used only with A2 = 1st > > person. > > I'm also not sure whether I should swap 1st and 2nd person above. > > > > At this point, I should mention inverse marking. Inverse marking is > > necessary to change which roles are mapped to which arguments. If no > > such marking appears, the word has a *direct* form and the roles R1, > > R2, and R3 go with arguments A1, A2, and A3 respectively. The inverse > > marker will swap R2 with R1 if V=2 and with R3 if V=3. > > > > Role Mapping A1 A2 A3 > > --------------------------------------- > > V=3 direct R1 R2 R3 > > V=3 inverse R1 R3 R2 > > V=2 direct R1 R2 -- > > V=2 inverse R2 R1 -- > > I had been meaning to get to this earlier, but the July 4th > celebrations interceded. :) > > I should point out that the system you've created here is > AFAIK entirely unattested among inversion languages. In > all cases that I'm familiar with (Algic, Ktunaxa, Kiowa-Tanoan, > Mapudungun, etc.), the inversion process only cares about > who's the subject and who's the object; secondary objects > don't figure into the equation. Thus, you would only > expect an inversion between R1 and R2 (being linked to > A2 and A1 respectively), not between R2 and R3.
This is interesting. I can only tell you why I've done it this way: Noimi has only a few primitive V=3 words. For these, the indirect object role goes with A3 (when direct), since a recipient etc. will normally be animate, and A3 is animate only (like A2), while A1 can't be animate. These are: A2 gives A1 to A3 A2 takes A1 from A3 A2 tells A3 A1 It seems more likely that a 1st or 2nd person would take that role much more often than direct object. There are also a number of V=3 derived by compounding some actional V=2 with a locational V=2. In these, the agent is R2 (as usual), the location referent is A1, and the entity at/going to/coming from the location is R3. Jeff
> ========================================================================= > Thomas Wier "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally, > Dept. of Linguistics because our secret police don't get it right > University of Chicago half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of > 1010 E. 59th Street Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter. > Chicago, IL 60637 > =========================================================================