Re: The Face Of God

Padraic Brown wrote, quoting myself and respectively Mike Ellis:

> > Incidentally, in my experience the word 'pious'
> > is almost extinct as a
> > synonym for 'devoted to religion'. Instead,
> > 'piety' has come to mean 'false piety'
>
> How did it get that way for you? It's never been
> anything other than "devoted to religion" or
> "devoted to (the) God(s)" for me.
Who can say? Probably I've read various books in which a character
described as pious (possibly self-described) is a hypocritical type,
and few books in which a character described as pious is a sincere
type. When I hear the word "pious", my mental image is of the New
Testament pharisees - devoted to outward observances but without an
inner attitude to match.

> The Path already has two half wheels (one for the
> eight Virtues and one for the eight
> Aginvirtues*); a four spoked wheel for the
> Principals and two arcs of seven stars for the
> chief Powers (though only one arc of seven is
> ever depicted - the other seven are usually
> represented by rocks amongst the roots of the
> Tree that grows under the arc of Stars). What's
> another wheel in the works? ;) So, there will now
> be a Twelvefold Wheel as well.
Do you think that the established use of symbolic wheels in the
Path means that its followers are more likely to relate to and trade
ideas with other cultures that also use wheels? I can just about see
that, but depending on cultural attitudes I can also see the exact
opposite result. Cries of heresy and so forth.

> [*These are not "vices" or even just the mere
> opposite of virtues. They _are_ Virtues, just the
> Virtues that are set _against_ the Virtues.]
Can you explain? Or give a link?

> > Most people probably noticed that the twelve
> > attributes are not
> > arbitrarily scattered around the clock face.
>
> Well, for a Telerani, they are to an extent.
> Also, several make absolutely no sense. So rather
> than simply translate something that would be
> culturally meaningless (but accurate) I took more
> meaningful attrributes to fill in the few empty
> spaces. Also, there are four overwhelmingly
> important attributes - attributes that fit the
> Path so very well - that they must be shifted to
> the cardinal points.
It's interesting that in your culture, the cardinal points of a wheel
are given special significance. In my design, I made sure that "most
goodwilling" was at the north compass point (because in any definition
of Christianity, "God is love" is the most important attribute of God)
and oriented everything else around that.

The other thing I'll give away is that I first of all came up with the
six attributes at 12, 2, 4, 6 and 8, and then filled in the remaining
positions with six more attributes afterwards (after I'd had a little
think about what was missing from the original six).

> > For example, attributes
> > on opposing sides are always complementary in
> > some way. 'Most intimate'
> > and 'most vast' are complementary on account of
> > being opposites;
>
> Indeed. I like this arrangement. It is also how
> the Virtues and the Powers are aligned.
Great minds think alike?

> Well, let's see what you think! Consider point
> [1] to be at the top, [7] at the bottom, etc.
> Also note that all attributes can be modified by
> MAXA-, which simply means "most":
I'm going to modify your text so that the numbers correspond to clock
face positions, so that I'm not confused. As a reminder that the
text is modified, I'll use "!" for the quote mark.

! 12. haxarttan "birth contractions" of the spirit
! 1.  alohacnatar Who tends to all that need

(c.f. position 9 in original)

! 2.  paltamâspurncanar wide-open goodness
! 3.  sahamtaramtom the Seeker Sought

(c.f. - position 11 in original)

! 4.  xacamata needs to be loved
! 5.  elenânti beyond the stars

(c.f. position 4 in original)

! 6.  nexawolnetan welling up from within
! 7.  telcohacnatar Who tends to each that needs

(c.f. position 3 in original)

! 8.  manstar wise

(c.f. position 6 in original)

! 9.  weytimtôs Truly Known
! 10. xacamtar Truly Loving
! 11. filtahan within the living spirit

(c.f. position 10 in original)

Position 12 in original ("most goodwilling") resembles both "wide-open
goodness" and "truly loving". So what's left over? It seems to me that
the items on the original wheel for which you have included no
equivalent are: 1. Imperative; 2. Destiny; 5. Unsurveyable;
7. Forgiving; 8. Designer. Your commentary explains these omissions,
either explicitely or implicitely.

! 4/10. The Catholics say (or _would_ say, if there
! were any in The World) that God made us to love
! and serve him and love with him in heaven; and
! the followers of the Path would concur in part.
! We came to be out of God's need and desire to
! love and be loved. It makes no sense to embody
! love if the need to love is lacking. If we love

I once had an argument about a related topic at Bible College.
Talking about why God would bother to create us, I argued that it is
in God's nature to create someone to love and that all of this ties
in with the "he cannot defy his own nature" of 2 Timothy. Other people
took an opposing view, that if God had needs he would not fully be
God. I think that line of argument is faulty.

FWIW, my background is Uniting Church (amalgamation of methodist,
presbyterian and congregational) while I think most of the others were
Baptists. I'm not saying that's necessarily relevant, but just for
reference.

Adrian.

Reply