Re: Ong Rokbeigalmki (A Rokbeigalmki Chant)
|From:||Christophe Grandsire <grandsir@...>|
|Date:||Thursday, September 30, 1999, 12:50|
Don Blaheta wrote:
> Quoth Christophe Grandsire:
> > I think so, even if I can't even remember the present tense of IRE :( .
> Well, I seem to recall that the IRE forms were used in certain tenses
> (future, maybe?) while VADERE was used in others, including present; my
> memory might just be inventing that, though.
I'm not sure. The only form I'm sure is 'eo' for "I go". Definitely
from IRE, not VADERE.
> > It is the same in Italian, were "to go" is 'andare' (but here, even the
> > future tense is taken from 'andare', the use of the forms from IRE has
> > almost disappeared).
> Anything from VADERE?
Yes, the present tense must be something like:
Or something like that. Where did I heard the form 'andiamo'? :)
> > In Spanish however, "to go" is 'ir' and has forms coming from *vadere*
> > and IRE only. In that respect, it is the nearest to Latin.
> Thus "no va" = "doesn't go". :)
> > Definitely they will become simple prefixes. What you consider as
> > stilted is nearly the rule in Colloquial French nowadays. I even think
> > that we are in front of a seperation of Spoken French into two language
> > registers: a formal one, using the "short forms" ("je pense...", "Marie
> > a dit"), and a familiar one using the subject pronouns as clitics ("moi,
> > je pense..." -pronounced /mwa Sp'a~s/-, "Marie, elle a dit..." -I must
> > say that I find this form still awkward with compound tenses. But I'm
> > rather conservative as for French despite my young age :) -).
> I wonder in what way (if at all) this development is related to the loss
> of "ne" in spoken French; could it be that as the pronouns made their
> way into conjugations on the verb, the human brain resisted having a
> third paradigm axis for negation?
I think that's only because 'ne' is unstressed, and thus was often
reduced to /n/, that easily disappears in fast speech, (even in not that
fast speech, "je ne sais pas" is pronounced /Z@ns'Ep'a/, which easily
gives way to /S'Ep'a/ that we often find in children's mouths and write
also "chais pas" :) ) and because we have a split negation with a
stressed part 'pas' that is more easily heard. So losing 'ne' wasn't
such a loss. :)
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> > > -=-Don Blahetaemail@example.com-=-=-<http://www.cs.brown.edu/~dpb/>-=-
> > > If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way.
> > Who said that? That's a funny one :)
> Dunno, it's just in my .sig file. Usually I try to attribute my quotes,
> but some of them just come to me without an author. :)
> -=-Don Blahetafirstname.lastname@example.org-=-=-<http://www.cs.brown.edu/~dpb/>-=-
> Why buy a product that it takes 2000 flushes to get rid of?