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Re: Ong Rokbeigalmki (A Rokbeigalmki Chant)

From:Christophe Grandsire <grandsir@...>
Date:Thursday, September 30, 1999, 12:50
Don Blaheta wrote:
> > Quoth Christophe Grandsire: > > I think so, even if I can't even remember the present tense of IRE :( . > > Well, I seem to recall that the IRE forms were used in certain tenses > (future, maybe?) while VADERE was used in others, including present; my > memory might just be inventing that, though. >
I'm not sure. The only form I'm sure is 'eo' for "I go". Definitely from IRE, not VADERE.
> > It is the same in Italian, were "to go" is 'andare' (but here, even the > > future tense is taken from 'andare', the use of the forms from IRE has > > almost disappeared). > > Anything from VADERE? >
Yes, the present tense must be something like: vado vai va andamo andate andano Or something like that. Where did I heard the form 'andiamo'? :)
> > In Spanish however, "to go" is 'ir' and has forms coming from *vadere* > > and IRE only. In that respect, it is the nearest to Latin. > > Thus "no va" = "doesn't go". :) >
Yes :)
> > Definitely they will become simple prefixes. What you consider as > > stilted is nearly the rule in Colloquial French nowadays. I even think > > that we are in front of a seperation of Spoken French into two language > > registers: a formal one, using the "short forms" ("je pense...", "Marie > > a dit"), and a familiar one using the subject pronouns as clitics ("moi, > > je pense..." -pronounced /mwa Sp'a~s/-, "Marie, elle a dit..." -I must > > say that I find this form still awkward with compound tenses. But I'm > > rather conservative as for French despite my young age :) -). > > I wonder in what way (if at all) this development is related to the loss > of "ne" in spoken French; could it be that as the pronouns made their > way into conjugations on the verb, the human brain resisted having a > third paradigm axis for negation? >
I think that's only because 'ne' is unstressed, and thus was often reduced to /n/, that easily disappears in fast speech, (even in not that fast speech, "je ne sais pas" is pronounced /Z@ns'Ep'a/, which easily gives way to /S'Ep'a/ that we often find in children's mouths and write also "chais pas" :) ) and because we have a split negation with a stressed part 'pas' that is more easily heard. So losing 'ne' wasn't such a loss. :)
> > > -=-Don<>-=- > > > If God had meant for us to be naked, we would have been born that way. > > > > Who said that? That's a funny one :) > > Dunno, it's just in my .sig file. Usually I try to attribute my quotes, > but some of them just come to me without an author. :) > > -- > -=-Don<>-=- > Why buy a product that it takes 2000 flushes to get rid of?
-- Christophe Grandsire Philips Research Laboratories -- Building WB 145 Prof. Holstlaan 4 5656 AA Eindhoven The Netherlands Phone: +31-40-27-45006 E-mail: