Re: Core case roles

On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 15:16:24 +0100
bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...> wrote:

>  --- julien eychenne <eychenne.j@...> wrote: >
> >
> > (i)* The stone deliberately broke the window.
> >
>
> is this some sort of cardinal test of agency ? i would
> have said that animals, unconscious people, computer
> progammes could all be seen as potential agents, but
> i'm not sure they could be said to do things
> deliberately.
Hi,


*semantic* and not *morphological* Agent case necessarily implies willing. This doesn't
prevent a given language to mark a Force and an Agent with a same ergative
case, for example. But these are two different things.


> as to whether you _could_ say this, i'ld argue yes. it
> would be grossly anthropomorphic, but i've seen adults
> telling inanimate objects off for hurting their
> children &c.
Yes, and we could also say :
(i)The widow broke the stone.
It could be some kind of metaphora in poetry, for example. But both make no
sense, I hope you agree.



> btw, what IS the french translation ? it's not
> something i've ever thought about before. could you
> say 'la pierre a cassé la fene^tre', or would you have
> to say something like 'on a cassé la fene^tre avec la
> pierre'.
Both are correct, but I'd rather say the first one, just because when referring to
a definite stone, I'd better consider it as a subject rather than an instrument
with an indefinite subject <on>.
'On a cassé la fenêtre avec une pierre' is much neutral, insisting on the
window's breaking rather tan on the particular stone which broke the window.


> bac incidentally would render it 'stone hits (in such
> a way that) window breaks'. i don't yet have a word
> for window, but it would come out |knuy Pok window
> Sehkat| where strictly speaking |window Sehkat| is an
> adverbial phrase qualifying |knuy Pok|
>
So it works a bit like saying :
'the stone hits "window-breakingly" '. Am I not too false?

> > (iii) This car sits four.
...
> more likely 'seats' which is at least transitive !
Oops, that's it. Unfortunately, I'm almost sure I'll do the same mistake tomorrow :((

> the
> verb sleep does this too tho, and it _isn't_ usually
> transitive.
Do you mean we can say 'the bed sleeps two' for example ?

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