Re: to translate or not

On Wed, 2 May 2001 08:40:28 +0200, Irina Rempt <ira@...> wrote:

>On Wed, 2 May 2001, dirk elzinga wrote:
>
>> David Peterson wrote:
>
>> > So, I suppose if someone posts something that would be offensive
>> > to the culture of one of your languages, then you don't have
>> > translate it--no one's forcing anyone. So, what's the better way
>> > to show off a grammar? I guess you could make up your own
>> > translation exercize, making a note that the current one is
>> > offensive or incomprehensible to the nonexistant speakers of a
>> > language only you know. That's fine. Is it necessary to post
>> > messages of the like, though?
>>
>> Well, I have to agree with you there. However, I didn't read
>> Irina's message that way. I don't think she intended it that
>> way, either.
>
>I never meant that, no. It's not that the Bible, or anything, would
>be *offensive* to speakers of Valdyan (well, to some, as it is to
>some speakers of English; it's impossible to have a text inoffensive
>to *everybody* that still has any meaning at all).
>
>I was just trying to explain why I don't do every translation
>exercise, however useful they may be to show off grammar, and more
>specifically why I don't do the Babel text, however much of a
>yardstick that may be. In short, it would probably change Valdyan
>culture beyond recognition and beyond repair, and I don't want to
>risk that. As much as I like cilantro, I don't put it in vanilla
>ice-cream.
>
>And I don't want to explain every time I talk about Valdyas or the
>Valdyan language "of course I know I've made it all up", okay? I
>thought it was accepted knowledge on this list that *all* languages
>and cultures we talk about are made up.
>
>   Irina
>
I had an interesting experience a while back. I decided to translate Nik's
Lithuanian proverb (the "God has given us teeth, God will give us bread"
one) into MNCL strictly as an exercise. I discovered that "God" couldn't be
properly translated, even though MNCL was supposed to be a practice
language with no culture attached! The closest word was jos- meaning
something like pagan idol, which would have sounded like nonsense to those
native speakers (which weren't supposed to have even an imaginary
existence). I ended up translating "We have teeth, we will have bread".
So I agree that one can discover a lot about a language by *attempting*
translation -- just not what one expects!

Jeff

Oh, and the translation was:
 ize tomo tana, tomafabe pana.