Re: CHAT: I need help with the concept "New World Spanish"
| From: | Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Sunday, September 1, 2002, 1:15 |
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--- John Cowan <jcowan@...> wrote:
> I need help convincing an intelligent skeptic that
> there is a reasonably
> identifiable concept of "New World Spanish" as
> distinct from "Peninsular
> Spanish". His arguments are as follows:
I would tend to agree with your skeptic, as I really
don't understand why there is a dichotomy between
Spanish Spanish and American Spanish. We were taught
that there is one (mostly by American Hispanics),
based on vocabulary differences, pronunciations, etc.
But even as your skeptic says, all those things differ
not only within Spain itself (consider /andalu/ v.
/andaluTia/) but between American countries and
regions. Our Argentinian teacher taught us /So me
Samo/ while the Mexican said /jo me jamo/.
In my opinion, the only viable differentiation may be
a historical one: motherland v. colonies. In any
event, "New World Spanish" doesn't have any real
meaning for me, cos I know two things: 1) that all
Spain doesn't have a single dialect to contrast "NWS"
with; and 2) that "NWS" is not a unified dialect that
can be contrasted in toto with Iberian Spanish.
Personally, I speak of "Spanish" in general v. "Xian
Spanish" in particular. I.e., the language as a whole
v. its subvarieties, like I do of English or Gaelic.
> # It does not seem to me that ["New World Spanish"]
> # identifies a single
> # variety of Spanish any more precisely than
> # "Spanish" by itself does, even
> # within the varieties of Spanish dialects in Spain
> # itself. Indeed even
> # taking some of the salient phonetic features of
> # "New World Spanish", one
> # finds them in Andalucia anyway. Features of both
> # vocabulary and grammar
> # differ from country to country in the Americas,
> # and they differ from each
> # other as much as they differ from Spain. So what
> # is being identified? No
> # one thing is being identified [...]. I am open to
> # be convinced otherwise.
>
> I think the error is in the phrase "they differ from
> each other as
> much as they differ from Spain."
I don't think this phrase is much of a problem.
Varieties of Spanish _do_ vary, with Iberia as well as
with any other Latin country (incl. the US and
Philipines). Consider voseo v. tuteo: several places
in South America use "vos" for the 2s pronoun, and
have a corresponding verb form (notably Argentina);
most places in SA use "tu" with the usually learnt 2s
verb form. No dialect in Spain I'm aware of uses vos
anymore (not for a few centuries, anyway). On the
other hand, vosotros for the 2pl is heard still in
Spain; but not in America, which favours usted.
Perhaps the phrase was worded somewhat clumsily:
_technically_ they don't vary with each other ***as
much as*** they do with Iberian. But the point is
valid: Spanish is a varied continuum / spectrum of
dialects and varieties. Perhaps this could be
addressed over on IdeoL?, though the arguments would
be in Spanish!
> OTOH, if I am quite wrong and there is no such
> meaningful concept, do let me know at once. Thanks.
I'd be interested in knowing your reasons for
propagating the "New World" v. "Old World" Spanish.
Maybe _I'm_ wrong and it is quite meaningful!
> John Cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com
Padraic.
=====
il dunar-li c' argeont ayn politig;
celist il pozponer le mbutheor ayn backun gras.
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