Re: CHAT: History of Â«irÂ»
|From:||Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, July 3, 2007, 23:18|
What is weird to me is the fact that "eo" forms got mixed up with the "vado"
forms (and in some cases the "ambulo" forms) in the first place. The whole
phenomenon. I only picked on Spanish because that's what I was thinking of
at th etime.
On 7/3/07, Elliott Lash <erelion12@...> wrote:
Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> The Latin is:
> I. vado vadere vasi vasum (3rd conjugation)
> II. eo, ire, ii, itum
> III. sum, esse, fui, 'esum' (this is surely made up!)
> present: voy, vas, va, vamos, vais, van
> pr. subj: vaya, vayas, vaya, vayamos, vayais, vayan
> impv: ve, vaya, vamos/vayamos, vayan
> infinitive: ir
> past participle: ido
> present participle: yendo
> impv: id
> impf: iba, ibas, iba, ibamos, ibais, iban
> fut/cond: ir-, etc.
> past: fui, fuiste, fue, fuimos, fuisteis, fueron
> impf subj: fuera, etc. / fuese, etc.
> fut subj: fuere, etc.
> I'm not entirely sure what is weird about this,
> except for the infusion of the fu- root from
> <sum,esse>. Iberian is different from other Romance
> varieties in that it retained a few more <eo, ire>
> forms. But even French still has <irai> not <*allerai
> or or maybe *audrai>.
> The infinitive, had it survived would have been
> *vaer, like 'caer' 'to fall' from <cado, cadere, casi,
> --- "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...> wrote:
> > ...and Italian andare. And there's Latin "Quo
> > vadis?", but I don't
> > remember the dictionary forms of that verb. Nor
> > does the
> > v-stem+andare stuff explain the Iberian infinitive
> > form...
> > On 7/3/07, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
> > > ... And I just remembered that French «aller» has
> > similar forms mixed
> > > into the same tense, with singular v- vs. plural
> > all-. So the verb
> > > conflation must date to sometime before the
> > Franco-Spanish linguistic
> > > split...
> > >
> > > On 7/3/07, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > wrote:
> > > > This should probably be tagged differently, but
> > I don't know with
> > > > what. The question concerns the historical
> > development of a natlang.
> > > > Specifically Spanish. How did the verb «ir»
> > develop? The usual Latin
> > > > root for "go" seems to have become «andar»,
> > while the everyday word
> > > > comes elsewhence and arrives in an odd set of
> > forms. Was there a
> > > > merger, like with English "go" and "wend"? Did
> > the present tense come
> > > > from some verb which, had its infinitive
> > survived, would now be
> > > > *«var»?
> > > >
> > > > This question occurred to me while I was trying
> > to
> > > > remember/reconstruct the polite imperative for
> > «dar», since the two
> > > > verbs have several parallel forms. (Though
> > *«daya» is not one of
> > > > them). The other thing that occurred to me is
> > that
> > > > _The_Dar_Imperative_ would be a good name for a
> > science fiction
> > > > thriller. And/or a rock band.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
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