CHAT: History of Â«irÂ»
|From:||Elliott Lash <erelion12@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, July 3, 2007, 22:41|
The Latin is:
I. vado vadere vasi vasum (3rd conjugation)
II. eo, ire, ii, itum
III. sum, esse, fui, 'esum' (this is surely made up!)
present: voy, vas, va, vamos, vais, van
pr. subj: vaya, vayas, vaya, vayamos, vayais, vayan
impv: ve, vaya, vamos/vayamos, vayan
past participle: ido
present participle: yendo
impf: iba, ibas, iba, ibamos, ibais, iban
fut/cond: ir-, etc.
past: fui, fuiste, fue, fuimos, fuisteis, fueron
impf subj: fuera, etc. / fuese, etc.
fut subj: fuere, etc.
I'm not entirely sure what is weird about this,
except for the infusion of the fu- root from
<sum,esse>. Iberian is different from other Romance
varieties in that it retained a few more <eo, ire>
forms. But even French still has <irai> not <*allerai
or or maybe *audrai>.
The infinitive, had it survived would have been
*vaer, like 'caer' 'to fall' from <cado, cadere, casi,
--- "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...> wrote:
> ...and Italian andare. And there's Latin "Quo
> vadis?", but I don't
> remember the dictionary forms of that verb. Nor
> does the
> v-stem+andare stuff explain the Iberian infinitive
> On 7/3/07, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:
> > ... And I just remembered that French «aller» has
> similar forms mixed
> > into the same tense, with singular v- vs. plural
> all-. So the verb
> > conflation must date to sometime before the
> Franco-Spanish linguistic
> > split...
> > On 7/3/07, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > > This should probably be tagged differently, but
> I don't know with
> > > what. The question concerns the historical
> development of a natlang.
> > > Specifically Spanish. How did the verb «ir»
> develop? The usual Latin
> > > root for "go" seems to have become «andar»,
> while the everyday word
> > > comes elsewhence and arrives in an odd set of
> forms. Was there a
> > > merger, like with English "go" and "wend"? Did
> the present tense come
> > > from some verb which, had its infinitive
> survived, would now be
> > > *«var»?
> > >
> > > This question occurred to me while I was trying
> > > remember/reconstruct the polite imperative for
> «dar», since the two
> > > verbs have several parallel forms. (Though
> *«daya» is not one of
> > > them). The other thing that occurred to me is
> > > _The_Dar_Imperative_ would be a good name for a
> science fiction
> > > thriller. And/or a rock band.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> > >
> > --
> > Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
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