Re: Describing the Welsh LL to non-linguists

On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Henrik Theiling wrote:

> Hi!
>
> René Uittenbogaard writes:
>
>> I'd describe it as follows:
>> Start with pronouncing a really long, sustained [l]. Now stop
>> pronouncing it, but keep your tongue in the same position. Now
>> without
>> moving your tongue, blow air out, which should flow along both sides
>> of the tongue.
>
> I teach it the same way.  The funny thing is that most people do *not*
> leave their tongue in the same position although instructed to do so,
> but put more tension to it, so they get more friction: exactly what
> makes the /K/!  The description is for a /l_0/, but almost all people
> end up with a /K/.  Faszinating!  :-)
I've noticed that, whereas my /l/ is pronounced with the tip of my
tongue against the back of my teeth or protruding a little through
them*, when I pronounce a voiceless and/or fricative lateral it tends
to be flat against the hind portion of my alveolar ridge.

* Also interesting is that my /l/ seems to be more dental than my /t
d n s/.

Peter Collier wrote:

> As a kid I (L1 English Midlands-English) was always told to pronounce
> it like < CL >.  I have also heard < HL > suggested as
> an English approximation, and also '' sort of somewhere between CL and
> HL''.
>
>
>
> I have also sometimes heard it pronounced by non-Welsh speakers as <
> THL > (i.e. /Tl/) when it is medial.  For example, you will
> often hear we ignorant Saxons pronounce Llangollen as if it were spelt
> (in English) as 'Clangothlen'
Interesting that it would have two different pronunciations in the
same word!