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Re: Describing the Welsh LL to non-linguists

From:Eric Christopherson <rakko@...>
Date:Saturday, November 15, 2008, 5:28
On Nov 14, 2008, at 10:33 AM, Henrik Theiling wrote:

> Hi! > > René Uittenbogaard writes: > >> I'd describe it as follows: >> Start with pronouncing a really long, sustained [l]. Now stop >> pronouncing it, but keep your tongue in the same position. Now >> without >> moving your tongue, blow air out, which should flow along both sides >> of the tongue. > > I teach it the same way. The funny thing is that most people do *not* > leave their tongue in the same position although instructed to do so, > but put more tension to it, so they get more friction: exactly what > makes the /K/! The description is for a /l_0/, but almost all people > end up with a /K/. Faszinating! :-)
I've noticed that, whereas my /l/ is pronounced with the tip of my tongue against the back of my teeth or protruding a little through them*, when I pronounce a voiceless and/or fricative lateral it tends to be flat against the hind portion of my alveolar ridge. * Also interesting is that my /l/ seems to be more dental than my /t d n s/. Peter Collier wrote:
> As a kid I (L1 English Midlands-English) was always told to pronounce > it like < CL >. I have also heard < HL > suggested as > an English approximation, and also '' sort of somewhere between CL and > HL''. > > > > I have also sometimes heard it pronounced by non-Welsh speakers as < > THL > (i.e. /Tl/) when it is medial. For example, you will > often hear we ignorant Saxons pronounce Llangollen as if it were spelt > (in English) as 'Clangothlen'
Interesting that it would have two different pronunciations in the same word!