Re: Elves and Ill Bethisad

--- Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
wrote:

> You asked me to name a pair of things that
> clash in Ill Bethisad,
> and I can name one, right in the heart of it,
> which has been
> a sore point for me from the very beginnings of
> my involvement
> with the project.  It is Andrew's
> representation of Kemr as
> a thoroughly modern, democratic western
> European country
> vs. Padraic's representation of Dunein
> (allegedly a part of Kemr)
Allegedly? An interesting choice.

> as a quasi-feudal poor country essentially
> stuck in the ways of the 19th century.
Dude! Learn a little about the US, (or any modern
country) to find a thoroughly modern place with
plenty of space left aside for backwardness and
archaism! I'll bet France and Germany have their
share, too. Oh, but silly me! Deutschland uber
alles! How quickly I am put to shame by
forgetting!

> It is true that modern
> western European democracies
> tend to have rural, conservative, less affluent
> backwater regions,
> but Padraic's Dunein with its lynch mobs is far
> worse than that.
I can't think of any of the great European
country in particular that dón't have such
problems. Maybe not "lynch mobs", but other
odious troubles.

> *Either* Andrew is right -
Moot point. Apart from the fact that you have the
wrong end of the stick, he is no longer with us.
Lamentable as it may be, he neither put his foot
down five years ago, nor asked me to change
anything two years ago. You might consider
catching up a little!

> then the Kemrese national government
> should support Dunein in a way that it manages
> to catch up with
> the rest of the country, and take measures
> against lynch mobs,
You conveniently forget that that same
organisation is active all along the Ffens; and
you oversimplify.

> landlords treating their tenants like
> livestock, and so on,
> and be it mainly because they cannot ignore the
> votes such programs
> could return from a substantial part of the
> country.  *Or* Padraic
> is right - then the Kemrese national government
> must be very much
> unlike a modern democratic government if it
> allows a part of the
> country to suffer such appalling conditions.
In that respect it is like any other modern
democratic government. It has its own agendas and
its own power base. Dûnein is neither on the
agenda nor within the power base.

> I found Andrew's Kemr a fitting environment for
> my modern-day Elves:
> a place as modern as any part of western
> Europe, but retaining some of
> the romanticism often ascribed to the Middle
> Ages (which the Middle
> Ages in fact never had, of course).  My idea of
> the Elvish province is
> that it is prosperous and advanced, with
> high-tech industry - fine
> mechanics, optics, electronics, information
> technology, renewable
> energy technology, biotech, nanotech.
Which of course was a little beyond what IB could
offer them!

> Not sci-fi goosh-wow, but among
> the most modern stuff available today.
What is goosh-wow?

> And a progressive, liberal,
> open-minded society with a strong Green Party.
I think the problem is that you read wáy too much
into the thing... Either that, or Andrew left a
lót out when describing it to us early on.

The IB and Kemr you describe are not the Kemr I
met in 1998 or so.

> I find it hard to
> imagine this being a part of the same polity as
> a province only a
> hundred miles further south where many villages
> have neither
> electricity nor paved streets,
Can't get much more "green" than Dûnein, pal!

> This contradiction just asked for being cleared
> up, but nothing happened.
Perhaps they could have gotten something done...

> I expected a word of judgement from
> Andrew, but it did not come;
There you have it.

> thus I decided to withdraw from Ill
> Bethisad because I could not
> stand that incertainty,
Perhaps shared worlds are something you should
avoid in future. Clearly, there are and were some
insurmountable issues.

> and interpreted
> Andrew's non-interference as a
> sign that he had "canonicized" Padraic's
> Dunein.
He was the only one that could accept or deny it.
Had he negated me or asked me to change ánything,
I would have. What choice would I have?
Apart from bailing out!

> When I heard soon
> later that Andrew himself had retreated from it
> too, I found myself vindicated
Interesting.

> And no, I never interpreted IB as an attempt
> towards an utopia where
You certainly fooled me! Kindly reread what you
just got done writing! You described a happy
utopia just above!

> You also asked about the Dragon & Star project.
>  (Sorry, Padraic,
> for interpreting your question as a humiliating
> comment.)
It was as expected.

On the other hand, I rally don't know what to say
about D&S. Andrew left me with no hint that he
had ány intention to revisit IB in any way. Nor
did he seem to leave with the bitterness you
intimate. As a matter of fact, he expressed the
desire to work on something in an entirely new
direction. Rehashing his admitted mistakes in IB
seem contrary to me.

So, Jorg. Why didn't you say any of this at the
time? You had the opportunity; clearly you you
felt very connected to the project. Your ideals
for Kemr were above and beyond Andrew's; but you
sat on the bench when you should have been
countering me, if you think I had it wrong. It
wonders me that you carry this grudge and
vindictiveness even now; when you have èvery
opportunity to help steer IB down a different
path. It also wonders me that Andrew would hide
any developments in Kemr vis a vis D&S.

Kemr in IB is sede vacante because Andrew is not
there; and I won't take it actively because it's
not mine. Nor will I let anyone else take it, for
fear of making it something it wasn't supposed to
be. This situation has severely hampered my
development of Dûnein, except to note the
ultimate death of Kerno.

I think of IB as a huge garden. All around are
well maintained lawns and thematic gardens. Maybe
even an animal park. At the heart is stand of
dark trees and in the middle a walled off space
with an old fountain, a shabby gardner's shanty
and an open pit. There is no gate.

Padraic.


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