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Re: CHAT: Best/Worst/Missing Scenes in LotR

From:And Rosta <a.rosta@...>
Date:Monday, December 31, 2001, 13:16
Christian Thalmann:
> --- In conlang@y..., Anton Sherwood <bronto@P...> wrote: > > And Rosta wrote: > > > But I did very much get the impression that the actors were carefully > > > coached -- overcareful in some ways. Examples that caught my notice > > > have fled my memory, but I noticed that when speaking English/Westron > > > they used [i] in certain Elvish names which would more naturally have > > > been said with [I] in English speech. > > > > Isildur being perhaps the most obvious. > > I don't quite understand why that bothered you. To me, it makes the > dialog even more convincing. > > Elrond, Aragorn and the others pronouncing Isildur correctly
For 'correctly' read 'as in the language they originate from'.
> enhances > the impression that these people actually *know* and live with the > Elven languages rather than just being actors forced to take these > "annoyingly" pure vowels into their anglophone mouth. ;-)
The more that foreign names are assimilated into -- are familiar to -- the language, the more that name's form corresponds to the native phonology. There's a continuum -- e.g. _Christophe_ at the foreign extreme in English could be [kXis'tof], as in French, or minimally adapted to English phonemes, /kri:s'tQf/, or further adapted to native phonotactics, /krIs'tQf/, or yet further adapted to native stress preferences, /'krIstQf/. At the one extreme it is clearly a French name being used in English speech; at the other extreme it is clearly being treated as an English name -- a name that belongs to English by adoption albeit not by origin. 'Eeseeldour' is too close to the Foreign extreme and not close enough to the Native extreme; it gives the effect that _Isildur_ is a name unfamiliar to Westron.
> Wouldn't you prefer Patrick "/ZA:nlu:k pikA`:d/" Steward to pronounce > his French lines like a Frenchman? ;-)
I am a big appreciator of Star Trek except for The Original Series, especially of J-L Picard, but I can maintain this appreciation only by studiously ignoring all linguistic matters. However, I don't understand Picard to be French, and in Series 1 of TNG French is spoken of as an obsolete language. So no, I wouldn't prefer him to speak French lines like a Frenchman. --And.