Re: Hebrew in all its Allophonic Majesty (was: IPA question)

On Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:08:57 +0400 Pavel Iosad <pavel_iosad@...>
writes:
> [B] ~ [b] ~ [b:]
> [P] ~ [p] ~ [p:]
-

You actually learned that the dageshless forms of bet and pei were
*bilabial* fricatives?  That's pretty cool, i thought i was just being
hypercorrective...
Sorry i forgot about the 'true' geminates.

> The geminates are there with a strong dagesh  (i.e. after a short
> vowel). As a matter of fact, it appeasr all consonants except the
> glottals ([?], [3], [H] and for some reason [r], but not [q]) were
> doubled in that position, but in some texts a "dagesh virtualis" is
> actually attested in these as well, especially after the article.
-

What is a virtual dagesh?  If i remember correctly, i've seen a
/r/-with-dagesh somewheres in Shir haShirim, but i can't remember seeing
any of the other "gutturals" with one, although i think Unicode encodes
all of them except for /H/ and /3/.  /h/ with a dot, of course, isn't a
dagesh but a mapiq.  (for those reading this unfamiliar with Hebrew
orthography, a dagesh is a dot in the middle of a letter that marks it as
geminated or (for the fricativizing letters /bgdkpt/) non-fricativeness.
a mapiq is an identical dot in a |h| that marks it word-finally as
pronounced and not just a vowel marker)

> > Standard Modern Israeli Hebrew:
> > pronounces /r/ as a velar approximant
> In one variety only (probably Ashkenaz, but I may be wrong here),
> the other has an alveolar trill or flap.
-

I was under the impression that that was considered the prescriptive
'standard'.  i personally prefer the alveolar flap, but then again i
distinguish /H/, /3/, and /h/, too :-P .

> Pavel Iosad               pavel_iosad@mail.ru
-

-Stephen (Steg)
 i am the terror that flaps in the night!
 oh wait, that's darkwing duck...

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