Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Russia in Ill Bethisad

From:Jan van Steenbergen <ijzeren_jan@...>
Date:Monday, November 4, 2002, 15:53
 --- Padraic Brown skrzypszy:

> > Well, before launching any wild ideas, I should > > first re-read carefully what > > exactly happened in Ill Bethisad during World War I. > > We just had a thread on the Great War a while back. > Did you catch it?
No, but I have read the whole stuff afterwards. Very interesting. I just don't really understand this A-bomb thing on Lódz. Why would the Germans drop such a weapon so closely to their own territory. Besides, as I understand it, not the Republic of the Two Crown was the main enemy. In their place, I would rather have dropped the bomb on London or so.
> > In general, I would say that the great turning point > > in Russian history is > > 1917, and not 1905. Plenty of possibilities. I'll > > think about the matter and > > post tomorrow, because it's really getting late > > here... > > Good! We look forward to it!
Well, if I am informed correctly, the primary purpose of Ill Bethisad is not to alter history, but rather to modify it at certain points and see what would have happened as a result (and perhaps as secondary purpose it provides a home to a number of a posteriori conlangs). How deep those "modifications" will reach, and how predictable their outcome will be, is of course dependent on the moment in history where you draw the line; it would be much easier to tell what the world would look like if Kennedy hadn't been shot, than what it would look like if Alexander the Great had been shot at 16 by an angry shopkeeper who caught the poor boy shoplifting. Let's assume, that Russian history *here* and *there* has been more or less the same until the beginning of the Great War in 1914. I've been reading the thread on Conculture about it carefully, but couldn't find much about Russia. I presume, that the political map of Europe by the time the Great War started was more or less the same *there* as *here*. *Here* we had the Central alliance, composed of Germany, Austro-Hungary, Bulgaria and the Ottoman Empire, fighting against the rest, in particular France, England, Russia, and Italy. Although politically Russia had a lot in common with the Central powers, for various - mainly geopolitical - reasons it ended up in the allied camp. But although Russia really did its best in the struggle with Germany and Austro-Hungary, partly because of the czar himself's incompetent military leadership Russia eventually had to surrender. This is where it starts to be interesting. *Here* the conditions of the peace treaty of Brest-Litovsk were at least partly undone after Germany and Austro-Hungary lost the war after all. But in Ill Bethisad the War ended in a stale-mate, as a result of which the pre-war borders were restored. Now, we could assume that this were the case only in the west. In that case Russia still would have been the scene of a civil war between: - the former provisional government that was liberal/social-democratic in signature and led by Kerensky; - the Bolsheviks, who had seized power *there* exactly at the same time and in the same manner as they have *here*; - the pro-czarist White forces, led by generals like Denikin and Kolchak; - the so-called Green forces, consisting of several loose formations without a clear political agenda. I see three possibilities for an alternative history here (I mean: *there*!): 1. The civil war carries on and on and on, and after eight years, when the country is completely bankrupt and ruined, they finally give up; the country is then divided into numerous bigger and small states of various political signature, since every general got his own state. Well, this doesn't really meet you criterious of 70 years of ideocratic rule, so let's skip it. 2. History goes on the way it did *here*: the Bolsheviks maintain their power and consolidate it all over the country. But Lenin does not die prematurely. Instead, at the age of 78 he benevolently hands over power to the relatively young, talented and ambitious Bukharin. Before that, Stalin had already been expelled from all power he had in 1927, before he disappeared completely; Trotsky, until his death in 1940, had been Lenin's loyal prime minister. My opinion about this possibility: possible but boring. And the outcome would probably have been more or less the same anyway, on the long term. So let's forget about this one and carry on with option nr. 3, definitely my favourite: 3. With the help of German regiments that had gotten their hands free after the peaceful end of the war in the West, the pro-czarist White army succeeded in gaining power over the Bolsheviks. The entire leadership of the communist party and the Red Army was either executed or had to escape the country (mostly to the neighbouring countries in Central Europe, where they would fruitlessly try to mobilize support for their lost cause during the next decades); a few or them went underground. The generals' initial intention had been to restore the power of the czar, but the royal family had lost much of its support because of the fiasco in the Great War, for which they were held personally responsible. Besides, the czar and his family had been wiped out by the Bolsheviks anyway (in a strange way, the generals were grateful to them for that fact). So they started to looked out for acceptable replacement. But soon they found out that the czar's next in kin was a certain Jack Romanov, a poor flower salesman in Brooklyn NY whose grandparents had crossed the ocean about seventy years earlier. Neither Jack, who had repeatedly showed left-wing sympathies, nor his feeble-minded younger brother Bobby, were acceptable candidates for the generals. At this point, they decided to keep the power for themselves and to rule the country by a junta-like collective body, the White Council. During the first years of their leadership, ideology didn't play an major role, apart from phrases about "rebuilding Russia" and "restoring our national pride". But the country was still heavily damaged as a result of two wars; people suffered hunger; and the popularity of their left-wing opponents grew steadily. The generals were realistic enough to realize that revolutionary spirit was still in the air, and that the catastrophal year 1917 could easily repeat itself. Thus, in an attempt to gain popular support (and to avoid a new civil war) they founded the Union for the National Rebirth of Russia (_Soyuz Narodnovo Odrozhdeniya Rossii_, SNOR). The program of the SNOR was ardently nationalist. The generals portrayed Russia as the poor victim of the rich West (not only Germany, but equally France and Kemr) and announced a huge pay-back to those who had brought misery to Russia. Russia's broken national pride had to be restored by the violent requisition of every lost territory and severe punishment of those who were considered guilty. Ultimately, they wanted the Third Rome to become the ruler of a huge territory between the Pacific, the Atlantic, and the Indian Oceans. In their messianistic propaganda, the Russian nation appointed by God as the saviour of the world. Non-Russian national minorities on the other hand were accused with numerous charges, including collaboration with every possible enemy and profiting from the country's national resources more than they should (i.e. taking from the Russians what does not belong to them); they were considered a serious threat to Russia's national awakening and therefore severely oppressed. Another important factor in the SNOR's ideology was Russian Orthodoxy. Even more than the language, it was considered a vital constituent of the Russian national spirit, and as such heavily promoted. The Russian Orthodox Church could highly benefit from this situation and became an ardent supporter of the regime, even though a patriarch had to be killed first to achieve that purpose. In the beginning, the generals Denikin and Kolchak only raised their eyebrows, when the young, illiterate farmer Josif Vissarionov showed up in their ranks. They had a really good laugh as he tried to obtain a minor position in their government - but nevertheless gave it to him. Twenty years later their laughter would eventually be over, when they had to confess all possible crimes - including communist sympathies and cooperation with Western secret services - in one out of many show processes that lead to as many death penalties. It was Vissarionov who eventually found an opportunity to regain many of Russia's lost territories in the cooperation with the - previously much hated - Germans. Should I go on? The SNOR was became more and more populated with people who completely did not believe in the party's original ideas and used them only as a façade to hide their blind pursuit for their own personal interests. From the late sixties onwards, corruption grew to inconceivable proportions. The government lost any feeling with the people, and didn't even notice the growing popular discontent. Finally, after seventy years, the regime collapsed as a result of its own incapacity to mobilize popular support; it left a desillusioned, lost country and an incredible economic chaos. Well, you asked for it! :) What do you think? By the way, I am still not entirely clear with the Republic of the Two Crowns, Ill Bethisad's equivalent of Poland. Was it already there before the beginning of The Great War, or could it have been emerged as a result of Russia's defeat? Besides, how do you explain Low Saxon to be its main language? Perhaps my Romance-Polish language Wenedyk could play a role here as the native language of Poland, as an alternative for Polish? Have fun, Jan BTW I think I will cross-post this to Conculture as well... ===== "Originality is the art of concealing your source." - Franklin P. Jones __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

Replies

John Cowan <jcowan@...>
Tim May <butsuri@...>
BP Jonsson <bpj@...>