Re: CHAT: Importance of stress

> David Bell wrote:
>
> >> > Aha!  The old Latin/Quenya stress rule!  A simpler way to
> state it would
> >> > be:  "Stress the penultimate syllable if heavy, otherwise stress the
> >> > antepenult."  Amman Iar, like Tokana and numerous natlangs,
> appears to
> >> > distinguish 'heavy' syllables (those ending in a consonant
> or diphthong/
> >> > long vowel) and 'light' syllables (those ending in a short vowel).
> >
> >On reflection, this is not quite correct.  The heavy/light syllable
> >distinction is not really operative here, although my previous
> description
> >did not really adequately reveal that.  Thus
> >
> >1 [C]VC VC' CVC erinvar [erin'var]
> >2 [C]VC VCC' VC orcarmar [orcarm'ar]
> >3 [C]VC' VC VC erinis [er'inis]
> >
> >In each of the above, the penult is 'heavy', but in (3), the antepenult
> >takes the stress.  (1) and (3) show that it is not the quality
> of the penult
> >(whether light or heavy) in isolation that determines the stress pattern.
> >Apparently, the mere existence of a coda in the penult is insufficient to
> >trigger stress.  If mora count is involved here at all, it would
> seem that
> >an ultimate syllable with an onset has the effect of increasing the
> >effective mora count of the penult.
>
> Hold on, hold on.  Are you saying that your example words are syllabified
> like this?
>
> (1)     er.in.var
>         orc.arm.ar
>         er.in.is
Well, close enough.

(3)     er.in.var
        or.carm.ar
        er.in.is

> If so, then Amman Iar is weirder than I thought!
Hmmm, and just how wierd did you think it was? :-)

> If so, then Amman Iar is weirder than I thought!  I was assuming that
> intervocalic single consonants syllabified with the following vowel, and
> that intervocalic consonant clusters and geminates were broken up
> (i.e. VCV is V.CV, and VCCV is VC.CV).  In other words, I was assuming
> the following syllabification:
>
> (2)     e.rin.var
>         or.car.mar
>         e.ri.nis
Nope.  (3) can be shown to be the case by looking at the derivational
morphology of the words as well as the stress patterns.  erinvar and erinis
are derived from the same root erin (erin-var and erin-is). orcarmar is
derived from the root caram > carm (or-carm-ar).

> If you assume the syllabification in (2), then the Amman Iar stress
> and gemination rules couldn't be simpler.  But if the syllabfication in
> (1) is correct, then all hell breaks loose.
Yeah!  And I thought I had a glimpse of simplicity there for a brief moment!

> So what are your intuitions, as the world's only Amman Iar
> speaker?  :-)
Well, I am certain about the stress patterns in my examples as that is
exactly how I have always pronounced them.  I am not certain about how to
best describe them, however.

David

David. E. Bell
The Gray Wizard
dbell@graywizard.net
www.graywizard.net

"irvorisel in villissen ciroinarrion unastil
senil el findien vivas na elieth en errutharth limie"

"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards
for they are subtle and quick to anger"
JRRT