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[Fwd: From Patrick Dunn's lang to Watakassi']

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Sunday, December 5, 1999, 20:36
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Nik Taylor wrote:

> Here's my translation: > (I discovered a few gramatical errors, mostly errors in forms, oh > well) > > Nlannani'nal nabibita'l paflabi'tai wassagga'ili walli'sili > pipatisaggaglila'du > > Luslapa'lva wanafaki'l watu'fu > Patima'staski > Lukaswila'silva wanala'u wani'pal > Patima'stasva-naka pikapaffa'n ku faiszukula'stas > Patima'staski > Pla'ssi pli'ta saga'taiki "Nlannani'n, patima'sfinva ta'lmayi pibitta'n" > > Luska'palva pisani' wabizi'l > Plassi'taski > Kita'lva sukkista'iz pigasyu' > Plassi'taski > Plassi'taski nlannani'n nabibita' pli gadi'taiki > Pla'ssi pli'ta saga'taiki "Nlannani'n, plassi'finva ta'lmayi pibitta'n" > > Smooth translation first: > Our Great Father gave us these words about story-making > > He makes the small wind strong > He is hearing it > The water grows the food > He hears it in the distance and is about to be slightly sad > He is hearing it > Therefore we say "Father, you are hearing us well" > > The tree makes the house healthy > He is seeing it > Children are afraid of the night > He is seeing it > Our Great Father sees that we are mating > Therefore we say "Father, you are seeing us well" > > Notes: > Verbal agreement is with the absolutive > * Indicates gemination > > N-lannani'-n-al na-bibita'-l pa-f-labi'-tai > wa*-sagga'-i-yi > wa*-li's-i-yi pi-pati-sagga-gli-la'-du > > G2S-father-our(pauc)-ERG G2-great-ERG DatObj-Past-give-us(pauc) > G6Pl-word-Pl-INST > G6Pl-this-Pl-INST G7-collective-word-make-abstr-ELL > wapatisagga', literally "collection of words" means "story", so > _pipatisaggaglila'_ is "story-making" > I don't know what "great father" means, I only translated it literally. > lis- is the plural stem of li, "this" (it belongs to a class of nouns > and adjectives with "hidden" letters, fricatives which appear only in > the plural. In this case, instrumental is used because the dative has > been promoted to absolutive, so the old absolutive becomes > instrumental. Ellative is here used for "about". Pa- turns dative into > absolutive, and absolutive into instrumental. It is required when the > dative is a sentient being. > Incidentally, the word "father" here is a scientific term, since fathers > don't figure in everyday life. It literally means "co-mother" > > Lu-s-lapa'-l-va wa-nafaki'l wa-tu'fu > Cause-be-strong-3IrrS-Hab G6-wind G6-small > Incidentally, _nafaki'l_ (wind) is formed by _na-_ (that which) + > _faki'l_ (go) > > Pa-tima's-tas-ki > DatObj-hear-3SRat-INCH > The 3rd Singular Irrational has two forms, -*a after a consonant, and -l > after a vowel. > > Lu-kas-wila'si-l-va wa-nala'u wa-ni'pa-l > Cause-become-adult-3IrrS-Hab G6-food G6-water-ERG > Kaswila'si originally meant "grow up", as in from childhood to adult, > but was extended to any form of growing/maturing, including plants > growing larger. > > Pa-tima's-tas-va=naka pi-kapaffa'-n ku fai-s-zu-kula's-tas > DatObj-hear-3SRat-Hab=he.nom G7-distance-COM and ImFut-be-dim-sad-3SRat > s(a)zukula's means "be slightly sad". Ordinarily, the verb _tima's_ (as > well as _lassi'_ later on) puts the one doing the seeing in dative, and > the object in absolutive. Of course, if it's a sentient being doing the > seeing, dative-object is required. The thing heard is "it" in this > case, BTW, altho there was no way of telling with this sentence. Nouns > in the commitative case are used for adverbs > > Pa-tima's-tas-ki > DatObj-hear-3SRat-INCH > > Pla'ssi p-li'-ta saga'-tai-ki "N-lannani'-n, tima's-fin-va > ta'lma-yi pi-bitta'-n" > Because.of G7-this-ABL say-we(pauc)-INCH "G2-father-our, hear-you-HAB > us.pauc-INST G7-goodness-COM > > Lu-s-ka'pa-l-va pi-sani' wa-bizi'-l > Cause-be-healthy-3IrrSing-HAB G7-house G6-tree-ERG > > P-lassi'-tas-ki > DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH > > Kita'-l-va su*-kista'-i-z pi-gasyu' > Fear-3SIrr-HAB G3Pl-child-Pl-DAT G7-night > I know what I said earlier about pa- being required with sentient > datives, but it feels right here, probably because the children are > being affected by the fear. > > P-lassi'-tas-ki > DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH > > P-lassi'-tas-ki n-lannani'-n-al na-bibita'-l pli gadi'-tai-ki > DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH G2-father-our-ERG G2-great-ERG that mate-we-INCH > > Pla'ssi p-li'-ta saga'-tai-ki "N-lannani'-n, p-lassi'-fin-va > ta'lma-yi pi-bitta'-n" > Because.of G7-this-ABL say-we-INCH "G2-father-our DatObj-see-you-HAB > us-INST G7-goodness-COM > -- > "Old linguists never die - they just come to voiceless stops." - > anonymous > http://members.tripod.com/~Nik_Taylor/X-Files > http://members.tripod.com/~Nik_Taylor/Books.html > ICQ: 18656696 > AIM Screen-Name: NikTailor
-- ============================================================ SALLY CAVES scaves@frontiernet.net http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves (bragpage) http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html (T. homepage) http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/contents.html (all else) ===================================================================== Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an. "The gods have retractible claws." from _The Gospel of Bastet_ ============================================================ --------------80E75FF045A95677535F1B9E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from smtp01.frontiernet.net (smtp01.frontiernet.net [209.130.129.210]) by mail.frontiernet.net (8.8.8a/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA214342 for <scaves@...>; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:48:17 -0500 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.frontiernet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA64372 for <scaves@...>; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:48:16 -0500 Received: from secure.gdn.net(209.251.139.219), claiming to be "warden.gdn.net" via SMTP by smtp01.frontiernet.net, id smtpdNtCmaa; Sun Nov 28 14:48:06 1999 Received: from gdn.net (ppp56 [209.251.139.156]) by warden.gdn.net (8.9.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA10376; Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:55:47 -0500 Message-ID: <38418641.CC768C0D@...> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 14:45:05 -0500 From: Nik Taylor <fortytwo@...> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul.Bennett@xncorp.com CC: Fuschian@aol.com, jmpearson@FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU, bsarempt@rempt.xs4all.nl, rnierse@ANWB.NL, grandsir@NATLAB.RESEARCH.PHILIPS.COM, fflores@ARNET.COM.AR, dirk.elzinga@M.CC.UTAH.EDU, ira@rempt.xs4all.nl, dennis@himes.connix.com, nicole.perrin@snet.net, myth@INQUO.NET, john@DRUMMOND.DEMON.CO.UK, rhialto@easynet.co.uk, cowan@locke.ccil.org, pag000@MAIL.CONNECT.MORE.NET, tb0pwd1@corn.cso.niu.edu, hobbit@MAIL.EARTHLIGHT.CO.NZ, Jeffrey@Henning.com, draqonfayir@JUNO.COM, scaves@frontiernet.net, Spacey845@my-deja.com Subject: From Patrick Dunn's lang to Watakassi' References: <80256835.003CEA06.00@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's what I received from Patrick Dunn tobo-sabo senoomaka oakave pede semufazeono selogadetea kape tikie selopasua pazhue radumea sapoteapo selopasua selopasua kateatu oade senea pula. Opa moniova <<i tobo netapasu nehasatu>> Upe ralozotea tete selohivia enpuziono senlotevua beloe selohivia tobo-sabo senihivia motuguva dono Opa moniova <<i tobo netahivi nehasatu>> Here's my translation: (I discovered a few gramatical errors, mostly errors in forms, oh well) Nlannani'nal nabibita'l paflabi'tai wassagga'ili walli'sili pipatisaggaglila'du Luslapa'lva wanafaki'l watu'fu Patima'staski Lukaswila'silva wanala'u wani'pal Patima'stasva-naka pikapaffa'n ku faiszukula'stas Patima'staski Pla'ssi pli'ta saga'taiki "Nlannani'n, patima'sfinva ta'lmayi pibitta'n" Luska'palva pisani' wabizi'l Plassi'taski Kita'lva sukkista'iz pigasyu' Plassi'taski Plassi'taski nlannani'n nabibita' pli gadi'taiki Pla'ssi pli'ta saga'taiki "Nlannani'n, plassi'finva ta'lmayi pibitta'n" Smooth translation first: Our Great Father gave us these words about story-making He makes the small wind strong He is hearing it The water grows the food He hears it in the distance and is about to be slightly sad He is hearing it Therefore we say "Father, you are hearing us well" The tree makes the house healthy He is seeing it Children are afraid of the night He is seeing it Our Great Father sees that we are mating Therefore we say "Father, you are seeing us well" Notes: Verbal agreement is with the absolutive * Indicates gemination N-lannani'-n-al na-bibita'-l pa-f-labi'-tai wa*-sagga'-i-yi wa*-li's-i-yi pi-pati-sagga-gli-la'-du G2S-father-our(pauc)-ERG G2-great-ERG DatObj-Past-give-us(pauc) G6Pl-word-Pl-INST G6Pl-this-Pl-INST G7-collective-word-make-abstr-ELL wapatisagga', literally "collection of words" means "story", so _pipatisaggaglila'_ is "story-making" I don't know what "great father" means, I only translated it literally. lis- is the plural stem of li, "this" (it belongs to a class of nouns and adjectives with "hidden" letters, fricatives which appear only in the plural. In this case, instrumental is used because the dative has been promoted to absolutive, so the old absolutive becomes instrumental. Ellative is here used for "about". Pa- turns dative into absolutive, and absolutive into instrumental. It is required when the dative is a sentient being. Incidentally, the word "father" here is a scientific term, since fathers don't figure in everyday life. It literally means "co-mother" Lu-s-lapa'-l-va wa-nafaki'l wa-tu'fu Cause-be-strong-3IrrS-Hab G6-wind G6-small Incidentally, _nafaki'l_ (wind) is formed by _na-_ (that which) + _faki'l_ (go) Pa-tima's-tas-ki DatObj-hear-3SRat-INCH The 3rd Singular Irrational has two forms, -*a after a consonant, and -l after a vowel. Lu-kas-wila'si-l-va wa-nala'u wa-ni'pa-l Cause-become-adult-3IrrS-Hab G6-food G6-water-ERG Kaswila'si originally meant "grow up", as in from childhood to adult, but was extended to any form of growing/maturing, including plants growing larger. Pa-tima's-tas-va=naka pi-kapaffa'-n ku fai-s-zu-kula's-tas DatObj-hear-3SRat-Hab=he.nom G7-distance-COM and ImFut-be-dim-sad-3SRat s(a)zukula's means "be slightly sad". Ordinarily, the verb _tima's_ (as well as _lassi'_ later on) puts the one doing the seeing in dative, and the object in absolutive. Of course, if it's a sentient being doing the seeing, dative-object is required. The thing heard is "it" in this case, BTW, altho there was no way of telling with this sentence. Nouns in the commitative case are used for adverbs Pa-tima's-tas-ki DatObj-hear-3SRat-INCH Pla'ssi p-li'-ta saga'-tai-ki "N-lannani'-n, tima's-fin-va ta'lma-yi pi-bitta'-n" Because.of G7-this-ABL say-we(pauc)-INCH "G2-father-our, hear-you-HAB us.pauc-INST G7-goodness-COM Lu-s-ka'pa-l-va pi-sani' wa-bizi'-l Cause-be-healthy-3IrrSing-HAB G7-house G6-tree-ERG P-lassi'-tas-ki DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH Kita'-l-va su*-kista'-i-z pi-gasyu' Fear-3SIrr-HAB G3Pl-child-Pl-DAT G7-night I know what I said earlier about pa- being required with sentient datives, but it feels right here, probably because the children are being affected by the fear. P-lassi'-tas-ki DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH P-lassi'-tas-ki n-lannani'-n-al na-bibita'-l pli gadi'-tai-ki DatObj-see-3SRat-INCH G2-father-our-ERG G2-great-ERG that mate-we-INCH Pla'ssi p-li'-ta saga'-tai-ki "N-lannani'-n, p-lassi'-fin-va ta'lma-yi pi-bitta'-n" Because.of G7-this-ABL say-we-INCH "G2-father-our DatObj-see-you-HAB us-INST G7-goodness-COM -- "Old linguists never die - they just come to voiceless stops." - anonymous http://members.tripod.com/~Nik_Taylor/X-Files http://members.tripod.com/~Nik_Taylor/Books.html ICQ: 18656696 AIM Screen-Name: NikTailor --------------80E75FF045A95677535F1B9E--