Re: YADPT (D=Dutch)

>Date:         Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:30:34 +0100
>From: Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
>Subject:      Re: YADPT (D=Dutch)
>
>Quoting John Cowan <cowan@...>:
>
>> Tristan McLeay scripsit:
>>
>> > > I don't think it has anything to do with orthography. Partly because
>/S/
>> > > and /Z/ do not exist in Dutch as phonemes, our pronunciation of <s>
>and
>> <z>
>> > > sometimes comes dangerously close, especially in city dialects.
>> >
>> > Oh, okay, could be that then.
>>
>> Not surprising.  Finnish and Bengali both have only /s/, but regularly
>> pronounce it [S].  In Bengali, at least, the close relatives use [s].
>
>Are you saying that [S] is the normal pronunciation of /s/ in Finnish? That
>does not agree with the not inconsiderable amount of Finnish I've heard
over
>the years  ...
This has been discussed here before, just like everything else:
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0208d&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=40705
Note that about foreigners hearing s as sh...

Studying closely my own pronounciation, I think my /s/ is either medio- or
postalveolar or somewhere between. It naturally depends on the surrounding
sounds. Between back vowels and consonants, it becomes more backed. (It's
not normally voiced, by the way.)

Finnish also has a very marginal phoneme /S/ in loanwords, which I think
is towards retroflex, i.e. [S] or [s`]. Loanwords with /S/ tend to change
it fast to /s/ and drop their haceks (or h's) in spelling; e.g. _sovinismi_
"chauvinism" is nowadays almost always both spelled and pronounced with a
normal s, but I've seen it with an s-hacek in old encyclopedias; and the
spelling of _s(h)amp(p)oo_ seems to just vary.
There are some words where the /S/ is still regularly pronounced after a
long time, like _?akki_ (shakki) "chess", but I think even that quite often
has /s/.


- M. Astrand
"Ei suamen gi?les miss? muus sanas ?ff? tarvitak kom besofatis."


P.S. Jan and Christophe, dankie baie! :) (or, dank u wel)


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