Re: Mandarin demonstratives (Re: Charyan novel! (was: Re: [CONLANG] I'm back!))

> From: "H. S. Teoh"
>
> > Adam Walker wrote:
>
> > > BTW, what does Hokkien do with this??
>
> > Hokkien does it similarly
>
> > 1) tua3 gua4 chi1 peng2 (in my idiolect; probably "chi1 tau1"
> >                          elsewhere)
> >    at   me   this side
>
> Is your "dao1" (tau1) the same "dao1" as in "lai7dao1" e5 "dao1" (inside)?
> That'd be cool.
>
> > 2) tua3 lu4 hi1  peng2 (or "hi1 tau1")
> >    at   you that side
>
> I learned "di7" for "at", but dialects is dialects. The only "dua7" I can
> think of that might be cognate is "live"  ("Li2 dua3 dou2 wi7?", "Ni3
> zhu4(zai4) na3li3?" "Where do you live?"
>
> > It's definitely not possessive, as Hokkien would always stick the
> > *genitive marker (-e) on all possessive constructs. It would sound
> > extremely weird if you said
> >         tua3 gua4-e chi1 peng2
>
> I don't really know how to parse this construction either, even after
> trolling Li & Thompson and Matthews & Yip. A smashing together of
apposition
> ("ta1 nei4ge ren2"; "him, that guy") and locative structures ("zai4 wo3
> hou4mian4"; "behind me";; "zai4 zhuo1zi shang4"; "on the table")?
>
> > [Note: _hi1_ in my idiolect might be a contraction of _hia1_ or _hia4_??
>
> Other way 'round, I should think. "hia1" (55;44) (which is the way I
learned
> it), hia2 (52) (apparently another Taiwan variant), or hia5 (24) (given as
> Xiamen dialect) mean "there" (nei4li3/na4li3); it's also a contraction of
> "hit4 e5" (nei4ge/nei4xie1), "that", when used as a pronoun.
>
> > Anyway, it's a clipped tone, sorry I just can't sort out those tone
> > numbers :-P
>
> Yes, clipped. hit4 (33; going to 55 in sandhi) is "that"
>
> "hit4 bing5" = "nei4bian1" ("that side", "over there")
>
> "hit4 si5" = "nei4 shi2(hou4)" ("at that time", "then")
>
> "hit4 kuan2" = "nei4 yang4", "nei4zhong3" ("that type", "that kind")
>
> Similarly, "jia1" (55;44) is "here" (zhei4li3/zhe4li3); it's also a
> contraction of "jit4 e5" (zhei4ge/zhe4xie1), "this", when used as a
pronoun.
>
> "jit4 bing5" = "zhei4bian1" ("this side", "over here")
>
> "jit4 kuan2" = "zhei4 yang4", "zhei4zhong3" ("this type", "this kind")
>
> > [*Note: I'm not sure what's the right orthographic representation of the
> > -e genitive marker; but it's pronounced [E:], tone 3 (or was it a
clipped
> > tone? I can't get those clipped tone numbers straight).]
>
> I don't think this is clipped: e5.
>
> Kou
>
>