Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: CHAT: Reformed Latin-script writing for natlangs

From:Herman Miller <hmiller@...>
Date:Thursday, May 4, 2000, 3:12
On Wed, 3 May 2000 11:59:06 -0500, "Daniel A. Wier" <DaWier@...>
wrote:

>One of my current projects is trying to see if the writing of some >languages written in Latin script -- anything from Irish to >Vietnamese -- could be improved, simplified, clarified, and what not.
Cool project!
>Vietnamese comes to mind, first of all. I just taught myself how to >_pronounce_ the language (but I still have no idea what the words mean), >and what always threw me off is how diacritics are stacked because some >mark vowel quality, and others mark tone. And there are six tones in >Vietnamese for eleven vowels. Latin script is just not able to easily >record a language like that! Plus you have some unusual consonant >orthographic conventions.
There's a whole page of the Unicode book (the second half of Latin Extended Additional) that's filled with mostly characters necessary for writing Vietnamese (specifically from U+1EA0 to U+1EF9). That's a lot of extra characters!
>The tone marks are, and I don't remember what order they come in: >none: mid/level tone >acute accent: high/rising tone >grave accent: low/falling tone >hook (a small ? without the dot): falling-rising tone (Mandarin tone 3) >tilde: high glottalized >dot below (the only subscripted diacritic): low glottalized > >Now I like the way tones are marked, but I'd use a breve for the >fall-rise tone and diaeresis for the low glottalized tone (I personally >don't like underwritten marks unless it marks an open vowel like Yoruba >etc. does; this would work for Vietnamese too).
You could mark the creaky voice with (say) an apostrophe after the letter and save a couple of diacritics.
> I just think the >consonant conventions are a bit eccentric. I would rather use more >globally recognizable phonoorthograhy. Like z for [z] instead of d, >since z is not used. S should be [s] and x should be [x].
Is [x] often spelled <x> other than in IPA transcriptions? I'm not sure what the most common spelling is, but I'd guess probably <h> or <kh>.
>Any other ideas from the list? Let's make some conscripts for natlangs. >(I am seriously thinking of readapting a Thai-Lao-Myanmar-Khmer-like SE >Asian alphasyllabry for Vietnamese; wasn't that done in the past with >the Cham [?] script?
Lhörr-têk (http://www.io.com/~hmiller/Jarda/Lhoerr-uni.html) is a writing system that I developed to represent the distinctive sounds of human (and fictional non-human) languages in a way similar to Visible Speech, but allowing more phonetic distinctions. In principle it could be used or adapted to write any spoken language. -- languages of Azir------> ----<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/languages.html>--- h i l r i . o "If all Printers were determin'd not to print any m l e @ o c m thing till they were sure it would offend no body, (Herman Miller) there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin