Re: A Survey

--- Adam Walker <carrajena@...> wrote:
> --- Costentin Cornomorus <elemtilas@...>
> wrote:
> > reflexive
> > ---------
> >
> > Works out to be like the middle.
> >
> > couisens-si mezisif l' ystoufs.
> > cooks-self own.self the soup
> >
> > A certain kind of verb (like laouar-si
> (wash),
> > gouestir-si (dress), etc.) are actual
> reflexives.
> > Others tend to be understood as middle.
>
> Thanks for mentioning this Padraic.  This is
> something
> I've been trying to puzzle out for C-a in
> recent days.
>  This V-se construction doesn't seem to exist
> in Latin
> (or is my ignorance showint again), but is very
> widespread (universal?) in the Romance tongues.
I think it must have appeared somewhen during the
VL period.


> I'm finding it an uncomfortable construction
> for C-a
> at present.  Currently C-a is strictly SOV with
> only
> adverbs or adverbials allowed after the verb.
> This
> has also caused trouble with forming questions
> that
> don't have an interrogative word.  I've thought
> of
> using "si" after the verb as a question
> particle/interrogative adverb. but that would
> utterly
> rule out the V-se construction for reflexives.
> Would se-V work?
I don't know. I don't see why not. This is how
Spanish works. Since the pronoun can only be
attached to the infinitive and I think one of the
participles in the modern language, the pronoun
is now "attached" to the front of the conjugated
verb:

lavar-se ; se lava ; esta lavandose

In Kerno that won't work so well, because you'd
need a preverb to support the pronoun, and that
would render the verb no longer reflexive. So:

laouar-si ; laouas-si (he bathes himself)
but eralaouas = she washes him.

> I've been considering a dramatic re-work of C-a
> that
> would draw on the punic substrate to make C-a a
> VSO
> language.  does anyone out there know of any
> rom(con)langs that are SOV or VSO who can
> explain/give
> examples how they handle reflexives and
> questions
> without interrogatives?
Sure. Look at the examples above! Kerno is VSO,
but understands the preverbs and attached
pronouns to be integral parts of the verb. So,
saying "Erndlaouas sa-h-y rhen 'nâ-h-avenne", er-
+ -nd- is simply part of the verb -laouas,
"washes". [All that is "Is washing-them she the
clothes in the river.]

Kerno can also easily switch to "Laouas-els
sa-h-y rhen 'nâ-h-avenne." Or better: "Laouas-els
y rhen 'nâ-h-avenne, la sa." (Washed-them the
clothes in the river, she did.)

Padraic.


=====
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