Re: OT: Opinions wanted: person of vocatives

Staving Mark J. Reed:
>I'm working on paternosters in my two conlangs, and I have
>a question about the first line (wow, I've gotten far!).
>
>The older English form is "Our father, which art in heaven";
>the verb "art" is conjugated in the second person singular because "which"
>refers to "father", which is in the vocative; it's the person being
>addressed, and therefore considered second person.
>
>In modern English it's "Our father, who is in heaven".  The relative
>pronoun is considered third person because "father" - and indeed, all
>nouns - can only be third person in modern English.  Only the pronouns can
>be first or second person, though that can include relative pronouns when
>the antecedent is a personal pronoun: "I who am honored to be here";
>"You who are my friend", etc.
>
>So now I have a decision to make with my conlangs, which boils down to
>this: are vocative nouns considered to be second or third person?
>
>I thought I would solicit opinions from the group.  Informed reports of
>actual natlang usage, anecdotes about your own languages, and pure
>unadulterated aesthetic opinion are all welcome. :)
>
Khangaþyagon has two ways of forming vocatives. Any noun phrase used as the
subject of a second person verb is vocative by context. If a noun phrase is
used as a vocative when it is not the subject, the suffix "ye", which is
identical to the second person pronoun, is bound to it in the first suffix
position (the first suffix position in nouns is used for relativisers-
suffixes corresponding to this, that, etc). This form is used for "topical
vocatives", i.e. for addressing a sentence to a person who is not involved
in the action described.

Examples
Vocative by context
gwendedelt iðuzhosht ya'uz
hide.2p.refl.imp see.pp 1p.gen
"Hide thyself, my image"
Topical vocative by affixation
givrokye, glæstalsa ya
earth.voc, spirit.search.1p 1p
Earth, I make divination...

Pete