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Re: CHAT: various infotaining natlang tidbits

From:AcadonBot <acadon@...>
Date:Wednesday, June 14, 2000, 13:30
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Henrik Mathiesen" <thorinn@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2000 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: various infotaining natlang tidbits


> > From: Kristian Jensen <kljensen@...> > > > Pikanini namba wan bilong Queen <Prince (of Wales) Charles> > > Gras bilong hed <hair> > > Miks masta bilong Jesus Christ <helicopter> > > > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:36:23 +0200 > > From: Kristian Jensen <kljensen@...> > > > Actually, the terms I posted are the older Tok Pisin forms used during > > the days of the Cargo Cults. The term "Miks masta bilong Jesus Christ" > > certainly reflects Cargo Cult understanding, doesn't it?
A bogus example, I think.
>> There were a > > lot terms like that equally (if not more) hilarious -- a pity I don't > > remember them. > > Hilariously simpleminded natives. Right. > > Well, it may turn out that these phrases are genuine old Tok Pisin.
Some are. Some seem "humorous" in English. But this is no longer English.
> But they just remind me too much about the humorous 'examples' that > used to be in the little joke segments between articles in fifties- > vintage Reader's Digests. Like 'lazy white man sits down and walks' > for bicycle, and 'box with teeth, you hit him, he cry' for piano. > > When I was nine and reading through my grandmother's boxes of back > issues, I could actually believe that that was how those endearing > primitive people talked. But now I very strongly suspect that they > were made up to be cute --- or hilarious. (I'm not sure which is the > least attractive of the two). And the same for Kristian's examples.
Reader's Digest often presents a kind of pablum, IMO. Full of stereotypes. Unfortunate because widely read.
> > "Pickaninny" is apparently a word that has been incorporated in all > > the European-based creoles of the world in some form or other. Same > > with "savvy" apparently. These originated perhaps from a Portuguese > > based jargon spoken on sailing ships in the old days with a > > multinational crew. I.e. "pickaniny" from "pequenho" and "savvy" from > > "saber" (I think). > > Pikanini turns out to be more widespread than I thought, but there are > lots of other things that make me suspicious.
There are lots of serious and substantial dictionaries of TokPisin. "The Jacaranda Dictionary and Grammar of Melanesian Pidgin" by F. Mihaic, shows: child = pikinini Son of God = Pikinini Man bilong God (or ... Bikpela) daughter = pikinini meri hair = gras grass = gras kitten = pikinini pusi Lamb of God = Pikinini Sipsip bilong God crown = hat bilong kwin/king helicopter = helikopta no mixmasters
> For instance: > Prince Charles was born in November 1948, after the Cargo Cult days > (which ended with WWII, IIRC). (OK, that's marginal).
no relevance to cargo cult. The word pikinini is standard for child, descendent -- also seed/fruit So Prince Charles really is "pininini bilong kwin." No more humorous than the religious terms cited.
> Why would TP borrow a word for grass before a word for hair?
It's both.
> Wouldn't a stage of TP that has borrowed MixMaster not also have a > word for plane, and use something natural like 'plane like MixMaster'? > (There would have been very few helicopters in those days anyway---the > only WWII helicopter was the R-4 (from 1943), and AFAIK that was a > single-person rescue craft, not a cargo or combat craft).
I think this one is whimsical. They don't much use mixmasters in the villages. Regards, Leo J. Moser