Re: A random bit of Telona

Mike Ellis wrote:
>>>
>'Lodanvè' shows how, in matters of perception and suchlike, Telona
>prefers to identify the perceiver with the organ of perception.  The
>idea of 'I', 'you' and so forth is quite elastic in Telona.  One can
>refer to a group of people as 'I', if one identifies oneself with
>them. Similarly, if I see something, the eye seeing it is just as
>much 'I' as I am, as far as Telona is concerned.
I had to read over this a couple of times. It's a different concept
for grammatical persons, for sure. Do verbs conjugate for person? And
could you then use the "I" conjugation for a group identified with the
speaker? (sounds a bit like an ingroup/outgroup conjugation I'm
fiddling with for Tolborese; you'll see it here soon)
<<<

No, verbs don't conjugate for person - that's because Telona doesn't
have any verbs. :))  It's more or less an allnoun language.  At least,
there's only one open class of morphemes, and the others have less
than five or six members each - and the words you'd call verbs on
semantic grounds fall into the open class.

>>>
>The enclitic '-nve' means 'acting as'.  Without it, 'cihi loda' would
>mean 'seeking while being a heart'; but with it, 'cihi lodanvè' means
>'seeking while acting as a heart' - or bearing in mind the
>flexibility of personal reference, 'seeking with one's heart'.
I like this! "In the ROLE of a heart (but not EQUIVALENT to a heart)".
Now if only the word "heartily" were not already coined for another
meaning...
<<<

Erm, nearly. :)  Strictly speaking, 'cihi' and 'loda' still co-refer,
whether or not '-nve' is used.  So, even in 'cihi lodanvè', the seeker
is still identifying/-fied with the heart ... the clitic makes the
link with the heart directly relevant to the point under discussion,
rather than a by-the-by comment on a contingent state of the seeker.

In short, 'as' with the clitic, 'while' without it.

>>>
Olge k'luli c'ez. Ventrom amiak fadit.
eyes blind be-3PL . stomach-INST look-INF must-2SG
"The eyes are blind. You must look with the stomach."
<<<

Oh, you did it that way too!  (Using 'stomach', that is ... cf. my
previous post, replying to Christian T.)  We are a lot of anti-
romantics here, all feeling with our guts. :))

Jonathan.

[reply to jonathan underscore knibb at hotmail dot com]
--
'O dear white children casual as birds,
Playing among the ruined languages...'
Auden/Britten, 'Hymn to St. Cecilia'