Re: fuzzy blue monkeys(was Re: .sig)

--- In conlang@y..., Henrik Theiling <theiling@A...> wrote:

> Hmm.  I definitely disagree.  It *is* a phonemic /i:/, otherwise I'd
> write ,flauschigge'. :-) I'm very sure about this, since that
> imaginary word and the one in question are a minimal pair for phonemic
> length in High German.
Not at all.  In Swedish, either the vowel or the following consonant
cluster must be long.  In German, this is not the case.  You can have

1) long vowel, short consonant: *flauschiege /flaU."Si:.g@/
2) short vowel, long consonant: *flauschigge /flaU."SIg.g:@/
3) short vowel, short consonant: flauschige /"flaU.SI.g@/

Variant 3) only occurs in unstressed syllables.  Note how Variant 2)
draws the stress onto the penultimate.  These three words would
constitute a minimal triplet if they existed.

The stress in 1) could also reside on the first syllable, e.g. if it
were a compound word of *flau and *schiege.  Then, however, there would
*have* to be secondary stress on the /i:/!  It is simply impossible to
pronounce *flauschiege with an unstressed /i/.


> Let's check rhymes:
>    `flauschigge' does not rhyme with `flauschige'
>        (Ok, that word does not exist)
BLING!

Correct.  Variant 2).


>    `Knigge' does not rhyme with `flauschige'
>        (Ok, the stress is different)
BLING!

Variant 2) again.


>    `Könige' does rhyme with `flauschige'.
>        (I fear you start arguing that it rhymes, but
>        still does not contain /i:/...)
BLING!

Correct.  Variant 3).


> Convinced?? :-)
You wish.  ;-)


> Something with `-iege' would be most clear, but:
>    `Anstiege' almost rhymes with `flauschige'
HONK!

Incorrect.  Wildly so.  "Anstiege" is pronounced /"?an.%Sti:g@/.  /%/ is
secondary stress.  The stress profile of that word is distinctly
different from "flauschige".


>        Second syllable has secondary stress, however, so
>        it is also phonetically long.
It has secondary stress, so it is phoneMically long.  Flauschige has no
secondary stress, so it is phoneMically long.  /i:/ doesn't appear in
completely unstressed positions.


> As I said, unstressed /i:/...
There is no unstressed /i:/ in German.  It always carries at least
secondary stress.


> It's interesting where disputes start... :-)
It always starts there where someone inexplicably disagrees with my
infallible opinions.  ;-)


-- Christian Thalmann

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