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Re: OT: reality (wasRe: Atlantean)

From:Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...>
Date:Monday, January 12, 2004, 16:32
--- Peter Bleackley <Peter.Bleackley@...>
wrote:

<snip>

> In a self-consistent system, therefore, the > statement must be true. It is > therefore unprovable. Thus the existence of true but > unprovable statements > is a logical necessity. > > Pete
I've always prefered to think of Goedel this way; if there is a reason why some statement is true then that reason is an explanation for the truth of that statement. "X is true because ..." is essentially the same as saying "the proof that X is true is ..." Therefore, things that are true but unprovable are true FOR NO REASON AT ALL! Goedel's proof has also been extended to algorithms in that there are algorithms which work but cannot be proven to work. Thus there is such a thing as an algorithm that works for no reason at all. People who's religious faith in the infallability of science are profoundly uncomfortable with the notion that something can be true for no reason, i.e., without cause. That's why they react so violently to stories of ESP or reincarnation, etc. etc. They claim that since there's no reason why they should be true they cannot be true. But their own Goedel has stabbed them in the back! Things CAN be true for no reason and with no cause. Goedel has proven it. The only solution is to learn to be comfortable with uncertainty. "Look and it can't be seen. Listen and it can't be heard. Reach, and it can't be grasped." - Tao Te Ching (ch:14) --gary

Replies

<jcowan@...>
Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>