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Re: `Akupa, was: 5 phonemes

From:Vasiliy Chernov <bc_@...>
Date:Monday, July 24, 2000, 16:55
On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 11:44:38 -0700, Danny Wier <dawier@...> wrote:

>--- Vasiliy Chernov <bc_@...> wrote: > >> No, I wasn't satisfied with Miituu. Danny was right saying that >> 'true' >> geminates could be counted as phonemes. And the other complications >> with syllabication can be suggestive of something like deep-level >> glottal stop. > >Your task is daunting. I couldn't come up with anything that detailed.
Yep, the system has become overloaded with details for me, too. To avoid unnatural gaps on the surface, I have to assume e. g. the following distinctions in the underlying system: /ikja/ ek.e.e /iija/ ek_ke.e /ikkja/ ('true geminate') /iikja/
> Maybe it's because I've studied Farsi and a little Arabic, but I see >syllables as being C, CV or CVC -- V and VC just begin with a "null >consonant", which could be the glottal stop (lenited to a mere hiatus), >or a voiced or voiceless [h].
I think it depends on the specific system. I don't think introducing a 'zero consonant' will help much in describing systems like Russian or Spanish. Alternatively one could introduce zero vowels, or some 'syllabicity' as a segmental entity. For most systems this would be very anti-intuitive, IMO (while very witty with a few others).
>All utterances must have a beginning and >an end.
But there are too many entities having a beginning and an end. Besides syllables, there are phonetic words, and sometimes one needs some additional intermediary level (e. g. to describe consonant devoicing in German). Include all of them in the phonemic inventories? Or just name a cat 'a cat' - that is, let them remain simply 'syllable boundaries', etc.?
>And syllabries do have V and/or VC representations. Just add one to >the number of consonants. > >Gemination need not double the number of consonants, if you treat a >geminate CC as being XC, where X is a "dummy consonant" that >assimilates to the following consonant.
Then I'll get more than 5 phonemes :( I think I've already solved this problem in the sister system, `Akupa. I do believe that `Akupa represents a system operating only five segmental elements, on the 'deep' level. <long snip>
>> Is it flawless this time? > >This is conlang; there are no "flaws" ;)
Yes, of course... And yet I like my conlangs (and their descriptions) to be free of such inconsistencies :) Life is too short to finish any of them. So what I think *is* finished in them must look sound.
> >DaW.