Re: Looking for a case: counting

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 Philippe Caquant <herodote92@...> wrote:

> Even in French, 'tapoter' contains an iterative mark:
> tap-ot-er is to hit (gently and) repeatingly, you
> cannot say 'tapoter plusieurs fois' unless you accept
> to do a pleonasm.
  Both Hungarian and Slovak know verbal iterative marks (Hun.
<-(A)gAt>, Slk. <-vat'>), but in these languages it's not a
pleonasm when you use adverbial phrase <many times> with them. This
construction denotes a sequence of actions whose elements are
separated form each other but are iterative in themselves. It has a
similar meaning like English habitative <used to> + <many times>.

  However, in the above languages the two phrases -- the iterative
verb and the noniterative + <many times> -- have a different
meaning. The distinctions are not the concepts you mentioned --
cyclical vs. irregular -- but the encapsulation of the action. If
the elements of the iterative action are relevant, recognizable,
distinct subactions (or we regard them in this manner), the
iterativity is expressed by adverbial phrase. When the iterative
action is indivisible, its subactions are inseparable (or it's
irrelevant for us), an iterative verb is used.

  You stated that "It looks very natural to differenciate between
an action that happens once, an action that happens cyclically,
and an action which is repeated in a +/- messy way."  Maybe, but
it's also very natural to differentiate between distinct and
encapsulated iterations. The latter contrast has natural language
examples but the former?