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Re: Need Advice on Syntax & Case System

From:Christian Thalmann <cinga@...>
Date:Thursday, April 25, 2002, 22:34
--- In conlang@y..., Garrett Jones <alkaline@A...> wrote:

> Similarities: > your nominative, my agent: unmarked in both langs > your predicative, my "focus": 'u' in both langs > your objective, my "patient": 'i' in both langs
Striking resemblances indeed. =P In fact, |i| and |u| have been the accusative and oblique prepositions of Obrenje for years before I changed the case system. I guess we ended up with |i| and |u| because a case marker has to be (a) short and (b) distinct. Our high vowels don't cause any obstructions in the speech flow, and polarize pretty strongly against other vowels. They also allow the "coloring" of other vowels in old preserved inflections, e.g. |jae| /ja:/ becomes |je| /jE/ in the objective and |aw| /aw/ in the predicative.
> A > specific sentence example i would like to see is a sentence with a verb, a > nominative, and an objective but no predicative, but not using any pronouns. > The sentence "the dog sees you" is close to this, but it has a pronoun (so > prepositional case marking isn't there).
No sooner said than done: Kel warev i torav. See:3e dog:d OBJ man:d "The dog sees the man." You'll find more such samples listed in the syntax section: http://catharsis.netpeople.ch/langmaking/obrenje_syntax.htm
> > - Can you think of situations where this case system would fail or > > produce problems? > > How do you apply your system to the equivalent of english sentences that > have object compliments? for example: > > I called (him) (stupid). > We elected (her) (president).
I'm surprised that you should mention these -- they are classical applications of the predicative case! Je renoze u quq. PER:3s:OBJ name:PST:1 PRE stupid Lit: "I stupid-name him." I name him stupid. Je ingonoze u naj cej. PER:3s:OBJ elect:PST:1 PRE member:i one:d Lit: "We first-member-elected her." We elected her first member.
> They found (war) (to be the only possibility).
This one seems to be slightly different a problem. There are three possibilities: a preposition, a participle or a subordinate clause. Cigaw i kruc muj cene vuxe. Find:PST:3i OBJ war:i as only:d way:i "They found war as the only of ways." Cigaw i kruc mom u cene vuxe. Find:PST:3i OBJ war:i be:PTC PRE only:d way:i "They found war being the only of ways." Cigaw i tse mo kruc u cene vuxe. Find:PST:3i OBJ TSE be:3e war:i PRE only:d way:i "They found that war is the only of ways." -- Christian Thalmann