Re: Spanish pronouns

Elliott Lash sikayal:

> Jesse S. Bangs ániyë:
>
>  No, "se" was a pronoun in Latin, too.  It was the reflexive accusative
>  pronoun "his/herself".  In most of the Romance langs it replaced
>  the dative pronoun when there was another accusative pronoun present, as
>  well as retaining reflexive and sometimes passive usage. >>
>
>
>   Really? I always knew that 'se' was the reflexive third person pronoun
> in Latin, but  it's news to me that it sometimes replaced the dative pronoun
> derived from 'ille'. Do you have any examples that illustrate the fact that
> "In most of the Romance langs it replaced the dative....."?
I may have jumped the gun on saying "most" Romance langs, but the change
is common in Spanish and Romanian.  In Spanish it applies to all cases
where there is a dative pronoun with an accusative pronoun.

*Yo les lo doy (a ellos).
Yo se lo doy (a ellos).
"I give it to them."

In Romanian the prohibition is more phonologically motivated: those forms
which would contain two l's are prohibited:

*Eu li le dau.
Eu se le dau.
"I give them(f.pl.) to them.

*Eu li îl dau.
Eu se îl dau.
"I give it (m.sg.) to them.

BUT

Eu li o dau.
"I give it(f.sg.) to them.

Jesse S. Bangs jaspax@u.washington.edu
"It is of the new things that men tire--of fashions and proposals and
improvements and change.  It is the old things that startle and
intoxicate.  It is the old things that are young."
-G.K. Chesterton _The Napoleon of Notting Hill_