Re: OT: Semi-OT: Romance Comparisons

On 22 Apr 2004 Roger Mills <rfmilly@...> wrote:

> Oddly enough, Italian seems to subgroup better with "Eastern Romance"
> as exemplified by Romanian.
  I think the situation is much more odd: the dialects lying north
of the La Speza - Rimini line are rather members of the Western
Romance, while the southern idioms show mainly Eastern
characteristics.

> "Proto-Balkan-Romance" interesting but speculative
  Some kind of Proto-Balkan-Romance is more than a speculation:
there are still existing separate Romance idioms* from Istria to
Pindos Mountains (in Greece) and to the delta of the Danube. These
had a common predecessor and it is very likely that they are
genetically related to the extinct Dalmatian (cf. Lat. -ct- > Rom.,
Dal. -pt-, Lat. -gn- > Rom., Dal. -mn-, Lat. -u- in closed
syllables > Rom., Dal. -u-).

* Istroromanian, Aromunian (or Macedoromanian), Meglenoromanian and
Dacoromanian (the Romanian proper).

> Latin perfect [...] survives in Romanian, but I'm not sure whether as
> a perfect or a preterite
  The Romanian has no "classical" perfect. The following preterites-
perfects exist in this language:
- Imperfect: used in narratives; rarely in colloquial;
- Simple Past: denotes short actions in the past (the effect on the
             present is indifferent); rarely in colloquial;
- Compound Past: the only vivid preterite in colloquial;
- Pluperfect: indicates a past action prior to another past action.

  The diacronic sketch of the Romanian verbal system is the
following:

I. Indicative (Indicativul):
a. Present (Prezentul) < Lat. ind. praesens imperfectum
b. Imperfect (Imperfectul) < Lat. ind. praeteritum imperfectum
c. Simple Past (Perfectul simplu) < Lat. ind. praesens perfectum
d. Compound Past (Perfectul compus) < Lat. habeo + part. perfectum
e. Pluperfect (Mai mult ca perfectul) < Lat. conj. praet. perfectum
f. Future (Viitorul) - three possible forms:
  (i)   < Lat. volo + Rom. infinitive   [literary-formal]
  (ii)  < Lat. habeo + Rom. subjunctive [colloquial-informal]
  (iii) < Lat. volet (invariable) + Rom. subjunctive [Balkanism!]
          [colloquial-informal]
II. Subjunctive (Conjunctivul):
a. Present < Lat. si + *ind./act. praesens imperfectum [Balkanism!]
III. Conditional-Optative (Condit,ional-optativul):
a. Present < **auxiliary of unknown origin + Rom. infinitive
IV. Imperative (Imperativul):
a. Present < Sg2: Lat. imperativus I, Pl2 Rom. Present Pl2

* The 3rd person of subjunctive continues the Latin subjunctive,
  while 1st and 2nd personal forms come from the present.
** The paradigm of the conditional auxiliary is: Sg1 "as,", Sg2
  "ai", Sg3 "ar", Pl1 "am", Pl2 "at,i", Pl3 "ar". It has no
  satisfactory etymology but Sg2, Pl1, Pl2 seem to be contracted
  forms of the verb "a avea" 'to have', and Pl3 is same as Sg3.
  Sg1 is an enigma, however, the marker of the Albanian optative
  is "-sh-" (that is "s," in Romanian orthography)...

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