Re: Sensible passives (was: confession: roots)
| From: | Frank George Valoczy <valoczy@...> |
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| Date: | Tuesday, May 8, 2001, 20:24 |
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> Is there any natlang in which the basic verb is transitive {BORN}[agt
> (pat)]-- "Ethel BORN-ed" = Ethel had a baby, Ethel gave birth
> "Ethel BORN-ed Seymour" = E. gave birth to S. with passive "Seymour
> be-BORN-ed by Ethel" = S. was born to/of Ethel, S. was given birth to by
> Ethel--
Hm, let's try Hungarian...
(note: I wrote this note after I already wrote what follows. Basically
what follows is just me typing out my thoughts in order...)
(: = diaeresis; ~ = double acute)
Etel szu:lt. = E. gave birth, had a baby etc.
Etel szu:lte Seymourt = E. gave birth/DEF3ps/Past S./ACC
Seymour Etelto~l szu:letett = S. E./ELAT born/FREQ/3psg Past
Seymour megszu:letett = S. PERF/born/FREQ/3psg Past
Seymour tegnap szu:letett = S. yesterday born/FREQ/3psg Past
It's hard to really define this...
szu:l- means basically "to give birth"
szu:let- means basically "to be born"
1976-ban szu:lettem = 1976/INESS be born/1psg Past
I was born in 1976.
but it's odd because -et- is generally a frequentative...wait...no; it's
also used to indicate when you get someone to do something for
you...example:
megverlek = I beat you up
meg - perfective
ver- - beat
-l- - indicates 2psg is object of action
-ek - 1psg present
but:
megveretlek = I get someone to beat you up, with the only difference from
the above being the -et- which shows that 'I cause someone to beat you
up'.
So: we might be able to say, szu:let, means 'cause to be born'...
Seymour tegnap szu:letett
S. yesterday was caused to be born?
1976-ban szu:lettem
I caused to be born in 1976?
I'm bloody confused...maybe when you use "szu:let" it's always used with
the one being born as the subject...
Anyone can clear my thoughts up for me? It's really difficult for me to do
this since I never studied Hungarian, I just know it...
-------ferko
Ferenc Gy. Valoczy
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