Re: phrase's order

On 27 Dec 2004, at 6.11 pm, Philip Newton wrote:

> >     On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:06:30 -0500, # 1
><salut_vous_autre@...> > wrote: >     In frensh, the order will be
>SVO if the object is a noun or an > adjective
> > "Je mange une pomme" I eat an apple > "J'aime ma femme" I love my wife >
>"Je deviens vieux" I become old > > but if the object is a pronoun it will
>become SOV > > "Je la mange" I eat it(feminine, like "pomme") > "Je t'aime"
>I love you > "Je le deviens" I become it
>
>And if you have an indirect object pronoun, it can be either S-DO-IO-V ("Je
>le lui donne") or S-IO-DO-V ("Il me le donne")!
>
>(And I'm not sure of the order if there's no third person involved -- does
>"Elle me te donne" mean "She gives you to me" or "She gives me to you"? I'm
>guessing the former, though, i.e. S-IO-DO-V order in thie case.)
>
>I wonder why this order came about, i.e. third person IO pronouns coming
>last instead of first.
No sorry it's not that simple "Elle me te donne" is ungrammatical

I give it to him: Je le lui donne S-DO-DI-V
                 or: Je le donne à lui S-DO-V-P-IO (P=préposition)
He gives it to me: Il me le donne S-DI-DO-V
                    or: Il le donne à moi S-DO-V-P-IO

Technicly, even if it is comprehensive, these two exemples in S-DO-V-P-IO
(the two "or") are not to use. They are only said when talking to insist on
the IO, but the others are better.

She gives you to me: Elle te donne à moi S-DO-V-P-ID
She gives me to you: Elle me donne à toi S-DO-V-P-ID

The IO can be placed before the the verb only when the DO is at the 3rd
person

If there are some missing:

She writes it to you: Elle te l'écrit S-IO-DO-V
                        or: Elle l'écrit à toi S-DO-V-P-IO (again not as
good as the other)

She writes it: Elle l'écrit S-DO-V
(probaly that if you say "she writes it" it is to insist on the "it" and in
frensh it would be "elle écrit ça" S-V-DO
if you don't you would say "she is writing it" that would be "Elle l'écrit")

She writes to you: Elle t'écrit S-IO-V
                   (or): Elle écrit à toi S-V-IO (always not as good)

So complicated...

-Max

(P.S. I'll probably not answer so much today, it's my fourth post today)