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Tsema means "like"; was Verimak.

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Tuesday, May 11, 1999, 5:57
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This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these
are excellent.  But I can't believe that I left
out yet another damned word!  I think Boudewijn
complained of this, too, but I forgot to include
it with the others.  _Tsema_ means "like."  The
"toryo" is like the "tenvvyo."  I don't even
really know what it means in the original.  Has
anyone guessed that by the way?  I will give you
a hint in my shorter translation exercise.  And
THEN I had really better get around to posting
my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem.  But
I've run into some graduation business, and I
don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem).  But I
promise it, cross my heart.  Irina has also
asked for something creative, but that will have
to wait until after Sunday.

Sally

PS  I like the periphrasis that makes your passage
so Celtic in quality!  "there is to them..."  I
also like your inclusion of the gods to stand
for thunder and lightning.

Padraic Brown wrote:

> On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote: > > > > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at > > > "Verimak" in Kernu. I'd love to see what you come up with! > > All right, what I came up with: > > Nunck Depossci > never hereafter > > I. > Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh, > the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all > > nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme, > neither the ardour of the anger of Winter > > ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofacc=FA, > thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with > > da ndeva ndomme tu ai e=FA, > to thy home thou has gone > > le ndeu salte tu ai attrai=FA. > thy wage packet thou has taken > > Y mheip e mheirch de or, > the lads and lassies of gold > > commy mhunneori le fhocces, > like cleaners of hearths > > dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must even be put to dust > > II. > Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh, > the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all > > ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos; > thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil > > la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass; > meat and clothes put not to thy head at all > > sorry tu, saat petra o aconna. > as for thee, she's rock or stone > > ys y thot cestes ys seckeor, > they must all seek this > > dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must even be put to dust > > III. > Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh, > the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all > > nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne. > neither the fearsome drums of Taran > > ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte. > fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt > > le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofacc=FA. > thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with > > persecuteores, char=FAs, carents: > suitors, beloved, lovers > > a cell ys acadeor, > to that they all must even fall > > dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must ever be put to dust > > ******** > > crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in-=
is
> added, it becomes dust. > > Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting int=
o a
> row about something. Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his brother=
's
> face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning). =
The
> sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer .=
..
> and you get the idea. > > I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary; =
so
> I fudged and made something up. I'm not sure if conveys an idea even > close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead > stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone. > > llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from > French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des > clandre" =3D des (de ex) clandur, of slander. Thus the nominative fell=
prey
> to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposit=
ion
> es, derived from Latin ex. When in the oblique case, llandeors always > takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French > borrowings. > > woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus. The "l" got assimila=
ted
> to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn". > > I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor. =
On
> the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is? After all, y=
ou
> persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-) > > I like the poem rather a lot. Can't wait to find out its "true identit=
y".
> > Padraic.
--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <TT>This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these</TT> <BR><TT>are excellent.&nbsp; But I can't believe that I left</TT> <BR><TT>out yet another damned word!&nbsp; I think Boudewijn</TT> <BR><TT>complained of this, too, but I forgot to include</TT> <BR><TT>it with the others.&nbsp; _Tsema_ means "like."&nbsp; The</TT> <BR><TT>"toryo" is like the "tenvvyo."&nbsp; I don't even</TT> <BR><TT>really know what it means in the original.&nbsp; Has</TT> <BR><TT>anyone guessed that by the way?&nbsp; I will give you</TT> <BR><TT>a hint in my shorter translation exercise.&nbsp; And</TT> <BR><TT>THEN I had really better get around to posting</TT> <BR><TT>my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem.&nbsp; But</TT> <BR><TT>I've run into some graduation business, and I</TT> <BR><TT>don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem).&nbsp; But I</TT> <BR><TT>promise it, cross my heart.&nbsp; Irina has also</TT> <BR><TT>asked for something creative, but that will have</TT> <BR><TT>to wait until after Sunday.</TT><TT></TT> <P><TT>Sally</TT><TT></TT> <P><TT>PS&nbsp; I like the periphrasis that makes your passage</TT> <BR><TT>so Celtic in quality!&nbsp; "there is to them..."&nbsp; I</TT> <BR><TT>also like your inclusion of the gods to stand</TT> <BR><TT>for thunder and lightning.</TT> <P>Padraic Brown wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote: <P>> > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at <BR>> > "Verimak" in Kernu.&nbsp; I'd love to see what you come up with! <P>All right, what I came up with: <P>Nunck Depossci <BR>never hereafter <P>I. <BR>Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh, <BR>the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all <P>nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme, <BR>neither the ardour of the anger of Winter <P>ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofacc&uacute;, <BR>thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with <P>da ndeva ndomme tu ai e&uacute;, <BR>to thy home thou has gone <P>le ndeu salte tu ai attrai&uacute;. <BR>thy wage packet thou has taken <P>Y mheip e mheirch de or, <BR>the lads and lassies of gold <P>commy mhunneori le fhocces, <BR>like cleaners of hearths <P>dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine. <BR>there is to them that they must even be put to dust <P>II. <BR>Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh, <BR>the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all <P>ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos; <BR>thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil <P>la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass; <BR>meat and clothes put not to thy head at all <P>sorry tu, saat petra o aconna. <BR>as for thee, she's rock or stone <P>ys y thot cestes ys seckeor, <BR>they must all seek this <P>dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine. <BR>there is to them that they must even be put to dust <P>III. <BR>Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh, <BR>the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all <P>nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne. <BR>neither the fearsome drums of Taran <P>ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte. <BR>fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt <P>le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofacc&uacute;. <BR>thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with <P>persecuteores, char&uacute;s, carents: <BR>suitors, beloved, lovers <P>a cell ys acadeor, <BR>to that they all must even fall <P>dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine. <BR>there is to them that they must ever be put to dust <P>******** <P>crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in- is <BR>added, it becomes dust. <P>Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting into a <BR>row about something.&nbsp; Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his brother's <BR>face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning).&nbsp; The <BR>sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer ... <BR>and you get the idea. <P>I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary; so <BR>I fudged and made something up.&nbsp; I'm not sure if conveys an idea even <BR>close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead <BR>stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone. <P>llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from <BR>French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des <BR>clandre" = des (de ex) clandur, of slander.&nbsp; Thus the nominative fell prey <BR>to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposition <BR>es, derived from Latin ex.&nbsp; When in the oblique case, llandeors always <BR>takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French <BR>borrowings. <P>woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus.&nbsp; The "l" got assimilated <BR>to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn". <P>I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor.&nbsp; On <BR>the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is?&nbsp; After all, you <BR>persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-) <P>I like the poem rather a lot.&nbsp; Can't wait to find out its "true identity". <P>Padraic.</BLOCKQUOTE> &nbsp;</HTML> --------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97--