Conlang: Tsema means "like"; was Verimak. (Sally Caves, May 11 '99, 5:57)

Tsema means "like"; was Verimak.

From:	Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:	Tuesday, May 11, 1999, 5:57

From:

Sally Caves <scaves@...>

Date:

Tuesday, May 11, 1999, 5:57

--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by nut.brown.edu id WAA27532 This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these are excellent. But I can't believe that I left out yet another damned word! I think Boudewijn complained of this, too, but I forgot to include it with the others. _Tsema_ means "like." The "toryo" is like the "tenvvyo." I don't even really know what it means in the original. Has anyone guessed that by the way? I will give you a hint in my shorter translation exercise. And THEN I had really better get around to posting my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem. But I've run into some graduation business, and I don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem). But I promise it, cross my heart. Irina has also asked for something creative, but that will have to wait until after Sunday. Sally PS I like the periphrasis that makes your passage so Celtic in quality! "there is to them..." I also like your inclusion of the gods to stand for thunder and lightning. Padraic Brown wrote:

> On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote: > > > > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at > > > "Verimak" in Kernu. I'd love to see what you come up with! > > All right, what I came up with: > > Nunck Depossci > never hereafter > > I. > Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh, > the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all > > nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme, > neither the ardour of the anger of Winter > > ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofacc=FA, > thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with > > da ndeva ndomme tu ai e=FA, > to thy home thou has gone > > le ndeu salte tu ai attrai=FA. > thy wage packet thou has taken > > Y mheip e mheirch de or, > the lads and lassies of gold > > commy mhunneori le fhocces, > like cleaners of hearths > > dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must even be put to dust > > II. > Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh, > the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all > > ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos; > thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil > > la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass; > meat and clothes put not to thy head at all > > sorry tu, saat petra o aconna. > as for thee, she's rock or stone > > ys y thot cestes ys seckeor, > they must all seek this > > dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must even be put to dust > > III. > Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh, > the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all > > nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne. > neither the fearsome drums of Taran > > ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte. > fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt > > le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofacc=FA. > thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with > > persecuteores, char=FAs, carents: > suitors, beloved, lovers > > a cell ys acadeor, > to that they all must even fall > > dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine. > there is to them that they must ever be put to dust > > ******** > > crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in-=

> added, it becomes dust. > > Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting int=

o a

> row about something. Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his brother=

> face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning). =

The

> sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer .=

> and you get the idea. > > I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary; =

> I fudged and made something up. I'm not sure if conveys an idea even > close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead > stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone. > > llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from > French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des > clandre" =3D des (de ex) clandur, of slander. Thus the nominative fell=

prey

> to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposit=

ion

> es, derived from Latin ex. When in the oblique case, llandeors always > takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French > borrowings. > > woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus. The "l" got assimila=

ted

> to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn". > > I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor. =

> the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is? After all, y=

> persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-) > > I like the poem rather a lot. Can't wait to find out its "true identit=

y".

> > Padraic.

--------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <TT>This is really quite good, Padraic... all of these</TT> <TT>are excellent.  But I can't believe that I left</TT> <TT>out yet another damned word!  I think Boudewijn</TT> <TT>complained of this, too, but I forgot to include</TT> <TT>it with the others.  _Tsema_ means "like."  The</TT> <TT>"toryo" is like the "tenvvyo."  I don't even</TT> <TT>really know what it means in the original.  Has</TT> <TT>anyone guessed that by the way?  I will give you</TT> <TT>a hint in my shorter translation exercise.  And</TT> <TT>THEN I had really better get around to posting</TT> <TT>my version of Boudewijn's brothel poem.  But</TT> <TT>I've run into some graduation business, and I</TT> <TT>don't want to do a hasty job of it (the poem).  But I</TT> <TT>promise it, cross my heart.  Irina has also</TT> <TT>asked for something creative, but that will have</TT> <TT>to wait until after Sunday.</TT><TT></TT> <TT>Sally</TT><TT></TT> <TT>PS  I like the periphrasis that makes your passage</TT> <TT>so Celtic in quality!  "there is to them..."  I</TT> <TT>also like your inclusion of the gods to stand</TT> <TT>for thunder and lightning.</TT> Padraic Brown wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>On Sun, 9 May 1999, Sally Caves wrote: > > Padraic... since you commented, I want you to take a go at > > "Verimak" in Kernu.  I'd love to see what you come up with! All right, what I came up with: Nunck Depossci never hereafter I. Le caleor la sulle ne depossci temas outh, the heat of the sun never hereafter fear at all nel eduo la ire le Duvotemme, neither the ardour of the anger of Winter ty la ndeva oficinne mmortal tu ai cofaccú, thou thy Mortal Office thou has finished with da ndeva ndomme tu ai eú, to thy home thou has gone le ndeu salte tu ai attraiú. thy wage packet thou has taken Y mheip e mheirch de or, the lads and lassies of gold commy mhunneori le fhocces, like cleaners of hearths dond ay il ke ys si poneor in cravine. there is to them that they must even be put to dust II. Le desplacer le maculles ne depossci temas outh, the displeasure of lords never hereafter fear at all ty ist ilalla de la crueltate le reges amatos; thou are yonder beyond the cruelty of kings evil la ncaron ei vhestes ne dongenas pass; meat and clothes put not to thy head at all sorry tu, saat petra o aconna. as for thee, she's rock or stone ys y thot cestes ys seckeor, they must all seek this dond ay il ke si poneor in cravine. there is to them that they must even be put to dust III. Le ngladh le Lucete ne depossci temas outh, the sword of Lucket never hereafter fear at all nei thempennes temeverents le Taranne. neither the fearsome drums of Taran ne temas outh des llandeores o y whoudneores le contemte. fear not of slanders or the wounds of contempt le ndeu redent e le ndeu lacremant tu ai cofaccú. thy laughing and thy crying thou has finished with persecuteores, charús, carents: suitors, beloved, lovers a cell ys acadeor, to that they all must even fall dond ay sempeor il ke ys si poneor in cravine. there is to them that they must ever be put to dust ******** crava is gravel, like you find in streams; but when the diminutive -in- is added, it becomes dust. Lucket and Taran are thought to be brothers that are always getting into a row about something.  Lucet swings his sword (lightning) in his brother's face; who then gets mad and bangs away on his great drum (lightning).  The sound of which annoys Lucet all the more, and swings the sword closer ... and you get the idea. I couldn't find "tsema" in the vocabulary, nor in the main dictionary; so I fudged and made something up.  I'm not sure if conveys an idea even close to the original, but I like the idea conveyed: when you're dead stuff here doesn't matter, it's all either rock or stone. llandeors (slander) is an interesting word in that it was borrowed from French as a phrase d'esclandre, which was poorly interpreted as "des clandre" = des (de ex) clandur, of slander.  Thus the nominative fell prey to the cl > ll rule; while the es- part was interpreted as the preposition es, derived from Latin ex.  When in the oblique case, llandeors always takes the double preposition des (de + es); like several other French borrowings. woudneors, believe it or not derives from vulnus.  The "l" got assimilated to "n", which in this kind of location becomes "dn". I know "persecuteors" looks like persecutor, but it's _really_ suitor.  On the other hand, isn't persecutor what a suitor really is?  After all, you persecute some poor lass until she breaks down and marries you? ;-) I like the poem rather a lot.  Can't wait to find out its "true identity". Padraic.</BLOCKQUOTE>  </HTML> --------------6B462F11A2A6512E09726C97--