Re: translation needed

Padraic's written some excellent stuff on sci.lang.japan.  Here's how
the conversation continued on my end -- for the curious.

--- Forwarded Message ---
To: edheil@postmark.net
From: Ed Heil <edheil@...>
Subject: FWD: RE: translation needed
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:33:24 -0400

>===== Original Message From Ed Heil <edheil@...> =====
>===== Original Message From Charles Eicher <ceicher@...> =====
>
>Hey, even linguists need hobbies. Just don't expect me to take such
>frivolous hobbies seriously. But I will make one exception, in all
>seriousness. Please forward me some information and citations of
>publications, and the name of the guy who invented pseudo-Japanese
>dinosaur speech. I intend to nominate it for the igNobel Prize.
>I'm 100% serious.
I'm not familiar with that particular project, but a quick search for
"constructed languages" or "conlang" in any web search engine will turn up
many examples of this sort of thing.

>Your analogies are massively flawed. A more direct analogy would be
>an art restorer who spends his time "researching" and analyzing
>the art techniques used in Atlantis and how they would be restored,
>if they existed.
No, we're talking about creating new (and previously non-existent) things,
not researching non-existent things.  If I may correct your analogy somewhat,
let's imagine someone, who may or may not work professionally with existing
artworks, who for his own amusement invents an entirely new set of art
techniques (he may or may not choose, for the sake of verisimilitude, to
attribute them to an imaginary historical period such as Atlantis).  He then
creates works of art using these techniques.

>Let me give you a concrete, realworld example. Comedy Central
>channel's "The Daily Show" [...snip...]
>Was this guy serious? Hell yes. He went on and on about the scholarly
>aspects of his work. But it is obvious to everyone (EXCEPT himself)
>that he's just another otaku who is obsessed with porn.
Your objections all seem to center on the set of assumptions and prejudices
that underlie the all-purpose dismissive adjective, "Otaku," which I
understand is something like the word "geek."

I guess all I can say is if J.R.R. Tolkien is an "otaku" to you, I wish I
could be such an intelligent, knowledgeable, and creative "otaku" as that. I
would be proud to be such an "otaku."

>I used it merely as an example. Life is too short to waste time
>researching non-existent things. Even as an exercise in
>abstraction, it needs SOME sort of basis in reality. Excuse me
>if I don't believe in elves or talking dinosaurs.
You are excused, and if you find the whole enterprise of science fiction,
fantasy, and indeed fiction in general to be despicable, then you are being
consistent and I can respect your position, though I might disagree with it.

Not everyone enjoys the more fanciful products of the human imagination, and
I can see that photography might be an excellent art-form for someone whose
tastes run in that direction -- unlike some art forms, it doesn't have to do
with making up beautiful things that "DON'T EVEN EXIST!" but rather consists
of finding and recording beautiful things in the real world.

If you think there is something specially loathsome about constructing
fictional languages, though, that is distinct from the loathsomeness that
might be inherent in constructing fictional planets or countries or
intelligent beings or stories or images or history, then I am afraid I don't
understand the difference.

[stuff about preservation of languages deleted since Mr. Eicher has already,
in another message, stated that he picked it out only as an extreme example.]

---------------------------------------------------------------
Ed doesn't know everything, but he hasn't figured that out yet.
Please break it to him gently.              edheil@postmark.net
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