Re: LONG: Latest Wenetaic Stuff

FFlores writes:
>>>>>>
Paul Bennett <Paul.Bennett@...> wrote:

> /4/ is something like /t/, /d/, /r/ and /l/ all rolled into one.
> Several English dialects use this consonant between unstressed vowels=
> as an allophone of /t/ and /d/.
I think you're describing an alveolar flap (or tap), as is
found in Spanish and Japanese (of langs I know). It's a
"fish-hook r" in IPA; Kirshenbaum represents it /*/, which
is horrible. If you don't have any other sound of that type,
I think /r/ would be correct once you explain what it is.
<<<<<<

It doesn't sound exactly like the Spanish /r/, and after something Fabi=
an said
(unrelatedly) it doesn't sound like the Japanese /r/ either.  As I hear=
 the
Spanish and Japanese sounds as different sounds, I'm probably not analy=
sing them
properly.  If your (idio)dialect of Wenetaic uses this sound, who am I =
to argue?
:-)

>>>>>>
In Kirshenbaum and/or SAMPA, those would be:

i =3D /I/
e =3D /E/
a =3D /6/ (SAMPA)
u =3D /U/
=EB =3D /@/
o =3D /Q/ (SAMPA), /A./ (Kirsh.)
<<<<<<

Many, many thanks.  I've kept meaning to go look up the ascii-ipa symbo=
ls, and
somehow never managed to remember where they were.

>>>>>>
> >Consonant Clusters
> Two rules are present which seem to make most consonant clusters
> pronounceable.  /* These are thanks to comments made by Nik Taylor on=
> the CONLANG mailing list about clusters like /et_hke/ being hard to
> pronounce */
> 1. Post-stop nasals are realised as voiced stops at their original
> POA, ie {etnge} -> [etge]
I'd have regressive voicing there instead ({etnge}=3D*[etNe] > [edNe]).=

As for /et_hke/, it could give [et_hk_he] or [etke] (that is, spreading=

(non-)aspiration backwards or forwards).
<<<<<<
I did consider a greater amount of assimilation along the lines you sug=
gested.
I think I had {ethke} > [etk_he] at one point, as well.  It's still fai=
rly
malleable, and thankfully the unwritten elements are likely to remain t=
hat way.
The above comment about dialectical variations applies here, imho.

>>>>>>
> 2. Pre-stop aspirated consonants are realised as fricatives near
> their original POA, ie {ethke} -> [eTke]
> The actual fricatives they become are:
>  {ph} -> [f]
>  {th} -> [T]
>  {kh} -> [C](SAMPA) the sound in German "ich"
Oh, that's certainly a good idea too! But why does [k_h] become
[C] and not [x] (the sound in German "ach")?
<<<<<<
Just because.  Christophe suggested a good rationale, about "centering"=
.



=


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