Re: OT: Musical languistics

Where to start...

--- Samuel Rivier <samuelriv@...> wrote:
> Okay, music can show emotion, as can painting or (if
> common art extended that far) anything else that
> stimulates a sense in a certain way (imagine odor
> paintings or texture songs).
Saying that music CAN show emotion, etc. is the
correct way to approach the issue. Music is one of
those fields where everyone has an opinion, whether
they are trained in the field or not, so too often one
hears "Music expresses emotion." If you are familiar
at all with the avant garde during the 50s and 60s,
you know that music can be as sterile as [insert your
least favorite subject here].

> So why not create language that is based highly on
> rhythm and tone (perhaps start with a composition on
> piano) which uses these properties as expressions of
> meaning. The script can use a defined alphabet that
> is
> represented in undefined ways, like us using italics
> to emphasize certain words.
Interesting idea, but I think it would be extremely
difficult to implement so that it could express a wide
variety of meaning. Granted, rhythm in Western (not
Country-Western :) ) music has evolved a highly
complex rhythmic language (look at practically
anything by Elliott Carter or Brian Ferneyhough), but
differentiating subtle differences in "meaning" would
be difficult to acheive. [I can feel the heat
a-comin']

> Another question. To what extent is all this NOT
> universal, that is, how much of the emotional
> experience that music and art generate comes from
> culturally biased past experience. I suspect it
> would
> be almost entirely biased in this way, but there
> probably are some norms.
I think that there are some sounds in (and out of)
nature that are universally unpleasant (vomiting,
screams of terror, etc.). But as far as the typically
used set of sounds in music, I think it is almost
exclusively cultural. Western music [see disclaimer
above :))] and its equal tempered scale sounds
unpleasant to people who are used to hearing their
alternately-tuned cultural music.

> Examples I can think of offhand of musical bias as
> language:
> Surf Music-- I never would have thought that the
> hammering-on sound was supposed to represent waves
> crashing until I heard the originator of surf music
> say so. Now it seems crystal clear.
> Odd chord progressions-- in songs like 'Being for
> the
> Benefit of Mr. Kite' and 'Killer Queen' they can be
> quite annoying until you get used to them. Then they
> seem absolutely brilliant.
Can't comment on the above; I am not familiar enough
with it.

> Microtones-- how is any musical language supposed to
> be formed if every culture has a different musical
> heritage and expresses emotion in different tones
> altogether? Or will emotion in music be universally
> understandable?
I think I mentioned this above. I think, however, that
you should say 'how can any _universal_ musical
language...' My opinion on this is that just as there
should not be a universal spoken language, there
should not be a universal musical language either.
Western music [no comment] has been enriched through
the adoption of techniques from other cultures. Any
move to erase those cultural differences would
eliminate a lot of the wonderful variety that we have
now.

As far as universally understandable emotion in music
goes: I again think that it is highly dependent on the
culture of one's upbringing, and that there are no
universal norms.

> Can animals like apes and dolphins (and, to a more
> familiar extent, cats and dogs) interpret emotion in
> music, or does that have to be complemented with
> conditioned experience?
I would think again that conditioned experience is the
key here. There may be studies done that prove that
'atonal' music appears to be less 'enjoyed' by animals
than 'tonal', but I don't know of any.




=====
James Worlton
-----------------
Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana.
                 -Unknown

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com