Re: CHAT: Paths etc (was: CHAT:Conscripts)

On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:27 PM, R A Brown wrote:
> Henrik Theiling wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > T. A. McLeay writes:
> >
> >>...
> >>(Or, by "Am I alone with this L2 pronunciation?", did you mean "are
> >>there any other L2 speakers who do this?" rather than "Or is this a
> >>marker of L2ness?".)
> >
> >
> > Since I think I modelled (and even changed) this pronunciation after
> > L1 speakers, my question was: are there any L1 speakers that do this
> > or was I misguided?  You seem to indicate the latter.
>
> IMO you are indeed. A pronunciation like /pAs/ would be understood
> as "pass," pronounced variously as /pAs/ or /p&s/ and their
> reflexes. Plural after a vowel is definitely /z/.
>
> IME /Ts/ and /Dz/ maintain their individual sounds. Those L1
> anglophones who have problems with /T/ or /D/ habitually
> substitute /f/ and /v/, a pronunciation that has increased among
> the younger generations here in England and Wales (not sure about
> Scotland) at a surprising rate over the past 50 years.
I have heard people omit the /T/ in words like <paths>. I think they
may lengthen either the vowel or the /s/, giving [p&:s] or [p&s:],
but it seems to me they may pronounce it without lengthening as well.
I believe most people I have known with those pronunciations were
African-Americans, but I think  I have encountered white and black
people alike who delete the /T/ in longer clusters such as in
<strengths> and <twelfths>, with or without compensatory lengthening.

I have also encountered people who use zero pluralization for words
ending in /s/ and /T/. I notice it more in informal writing than in
speech.

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