Re: Types of rounding

Quoting Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>:

> On 1/11/06, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> > Labialized rounded is a kind of exaggerated rounding with the lips
> projecting
> > out  a bit.
>
> Is that what Wikipedia calls a "compressed vowel"? For example,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_front_compressed_vowel ?
It seems to be what they are trying to describe, but they seem to've made a mess
of it.


Quoting Tristan McLeay <conlang@...>:

> Andreas Johansson wrote:
> > Quoting "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...>:
> >
> >
> >>On 1/10/06, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>What's an 8\ ? I don't see that on the CXS chart.
> >>
> >>>It's a sign Benct Philip Jonsson and I are trying to make the 'stablished
> >>
> >>one
> >>
> >>>for a labialized rounded mid-high front vowel
> >>
> >>Oh.   Isn't "labialized rounded" redundant?   How do you labialize
> >>without rounding?
> >
> >
> > You can't labialize without rounding, but you can round without
> labialization.
> >
> > Labialized rounded is a kind of exaggerated rounding with the lips
> projecting
> > out  a bit. In Swedish, the back rounded vowels are pronounced with this
> sort
> > of rounded, but this doesn't contrast with normal rounding. However, the
> > formerly back 'u' vowel retains it, despite having become front, and only
> > differs from 'ö' by the later having normal rounding.
>
> That sounds the opposite of what the Wikipedia has to say on the topic:
> It says that compressed rounding do not have protruding lips, and it
> says that Swedish /u\:/=long u is has compressed rounding.
>
> I suspect the Wikipedia is confused. Compressed rounding is described as
> being normal for front rounding, and without protrusion, and Japanese is
> being regarded as odd in that has /u/ as compressed. Also, Swedish /y:/
> sounds (and looks) really odd to me, at least as produced by my Swedish
> boss ultimately from Stockholm; whereas her Swedish /u\:/ sounds almost
> the same as my AusE /u\:/=long oo, and I have the same lipshape
> more-or-less in /u\:/, /U/, /3:/ and /o:/=born.
>
> So my assumption of the situation is...
>
> Compressed vowel = unlabialised rounding
>   	found in - Japanese /u/ (as Wikip. says) [1]
> 	         - Swedish /y/ (contra Wikip.)
> 	         - most languages front roundeds [1]
>
> normal rounding = labialised rounding
> 	found in - Swedish /u\:/ [2]
> 	         - AusE. /u\:/
> 	         - most languages back roundeds [1]
>
[snip]
>
> The Wikipedia confusion is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
> compressed as having compressed vowel==odd rounding for fronting. Of
> course, "compressed vowel" really means (according to their definition)
> unlabialised rounding.
>
> Or am I misunderstanding Wikipedia?
>
> > (Again, my 'lect is deviant on this point - instead of [8\:] I have [u\:]
> with
> > normal rounding. I still labialize my back rounded vowels.)
>
> Normal rounding is labialised? If so, that sounds like what Camilla must
> have. (It's also possible that my Swedish boss's Swedish has been
> tainted by living in Australia so long.)
By normal rounding, I mean non-labialized; my back rounded vowels are
labialized, my front and central ones are not.

> Also, does anyone know if labialised or unlabialised rounding is the
> norm for central rounded vowels?
No idea.

                                            Andreas

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