Re: Types of rounding

Andreas Johansson wrote:

> Quoting Tristan McLeay <conlang@...>:
>
>
>>Andreas Johansson wrote:
>>
>>>Quoting "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@...>:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 1/10/06, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>What's an 8\ ? I don't see that on the CXS chart.
>>>>
>>>>>It's a sign Benct Philip Jonsson and I are trying to make the 'stablished
>>>>
>>>>one
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>for a labialized rounded mid-high front vowel
>>>>
>>>>Oh.   Isn't "labialized rounded" redundant?   How do you labialize
>>>>without rounding?
>>>
>>>
>>>You can't labialize without rounding, but you can round without
>>
>>labialization.
>>
>>>Labialized rounded is a kind of exaggerated rounding with the lips
>>
>>projecting
>>
>>>out  a bit. In Swedish, the back rounded vowels are pronounced with this
>>
>>sort
>>
>>>of rounded, but this doesn't contrast with normal rounding. However, the
>>>formerly back 'u' vowel retains it, despite having become front, and only
>>>differs from 'ö' by the later having normal rounding.
>>
>>That sounds the opposite of what the Wikipedia has to say on the topic:
>>It says that compressed rounding do not have protruding lips, and it
>>says that Swedish /u\:/=long u is has compressed rounding.
>>
>>I suspect the Wikipedia is confused. Compressed rounding is described as
>>being normal for front rounding, and without protrusion, and Japanese is
>>being regarded as odd in that has /u/ as compressed. Also, Swedish /y:/
>>sounds (and looks) really odd to me, at least as produced by my Swedish
>>boss ultimately from Stockholm; whereas her Swedish /u\:/ sounds almost
>>the same as my AusE /u\:/=long oo, and I have the same lipshape
>>more-or-less in /u\:/, /U/, /3:/ and /o:/=born.
>>
>>So my assumption of the situation is...
>>
>>Compressed vowel = unlabialised rounding
>>  	found in - Japanese /u/ (as Wikip. says) [1]
>>	         - Swedish /y/ (contra Wikip.)
>>	         - most languages front roundeds [1]
>>
>>normal rounding = labialised rounding
>>	found in - Swedish /u\:/ [2]
>>	         - AusE. /u\:/
>>	         - most languages back roundeds [1]
>>
>
> [snip]
>
>>The Wikipedia confusion is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
>>compressed as having compressed vowel==odd rounding for fronting. Of
>>course, "compressed vowel" really means (according to their definition)
>>unlabialised rounding.
>>
>>Or am I misunderstanding Wikipedia?
Did you mean to reply to this part of my post, or only the below? Am I
meant to've been deconfused, or not, because I'm even more now then before.

>>
>>>(Again, my 'lect is deviant on this point - instead of [8\:] I have [u\:]
>>
>>with
>>
>>>normal rounding. I still labialize my back rounded vowels.)
>>
>>Normal rounding is labialised? If so, that sounds like what Camilla must
>>have. (It's also possible that my Swedish boss's Swedish has been
>>tainted by living in Australia so long.)
>
>
> By normal rounding, I mean non-labialized; my back rounded vowels are
> labialized, my front and central ones are not.
>
--
Tristan.

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