Re: Consonant Clusters in Boreanesian?

Boudewijn Rempt wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Kristian Jensen wrote:
>
>>
>> My question to the group is, first of all, are there
>> limits to what can become CC- clusters? Secondly, are
>> there any limits to what are considered CC- clusters? It
>> certainly doesn't seem to be the case with Khmer, so I'm
>> curious.
>>
>
>It depends - if you want sounds with really simultanous
>consonants, you're pretty limited to things like [kp]
>and [bd]. As for real clusters, I don't think there
>are any real limitations, but clusters of, say,
>a retroflexive voiced stop and a dental aspirated stop
>are out, I think.
So I guess something like <pp>, where the first <p> is=20
released with aspiration, can be a cluster. I'm thinking=20
of a phonetic transcription I saw of a Salish word for=20
'pint' <ppil?> [p_hpii<creaky>d^l<creaky>l<voiceless>].=20
But when I try to pronounce that as it is transcribed, I
would tend to think two syllables and not one. In fact,=20
some phoneticians have proposed that syllables correspond=20
to 'the valleys between peaks in strictural degree'. So=20
if the first <p> is released with aspiration, then there=20
is a 'valley' between the two <p>s - hence, two syllables.=20
But then an English word like 'spit' would also have two=20
syllables since <s> has a lower stricture than <p>. This=20
would conflict with what English speakers intuitively=20
consider a syllable. I don't think phoneticians have come=20
up with a satisfactory definition of the syllable, which=20
is what makes clusters sooo confusing to me. Sigh!!!

>I seem to remember vaguely that the root-initial consonant=20
>clusters of Khmer are reflexes of a prefixal system, but I=20
>am most likely wrong.
Either way, from reflexes of minor syllables or prefixes,=20
the first element of a CC- cluster is always released first,=20
which in turn creates a valley of stricture in most cases=20
between the two consonants, and hence a syllable, and hence=20
no cluster. Hmmm... a cluster that isn't a cluster. Yeah=20
right!! That makes a lot of sence. There has got to be=20
something more to this than valleys and stricture!! Now I'm=20
mad!! ;-)

-kristian- 8)