Re: The lost indo-european tongue (was: the lost romance tongue)
|From:||Padraic Brown <pbrown@...>|
|Date:||Monday, January 31, 2000, 20:17|
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, yl-ruil wrote:
>On Monday, January 31, 2000 2:24 AM raccoon wrote:
>> > moigator = change- present 3rd person singular mediopassive indicative
>> > moigamosae = change- present 1st person plural passive indicative.
>> This and Padraic's IE language look really cool, but then I'm a PIE buff.
>> However, I thought there was only one passive-like voice in PIE, called
>> variously middle, passive, or mediopassive depending on which daughter
>> language one is referring to. Non?
>Indeed. As far as I know PIE only had two voices: active and mediopassive
>(note that mediopassives in -r are a particularly archaic feature found in
>Celtic - the welsh impersonal inflection - and Latin, and of course Aredos).
Also retained in Kernu (Romance conlang).
>However, following Sanskrit (which has active, mediopassive and passive) and
>ancient Greek (likewise), I added the passive inflection. This innovation
>dates to the early Carastic period of Aredos. It simply adds -ae to the
>person ending (note ae = ai).
Also Hittite has forms in -r, if I remember right. Tocharian as well.
>Here's another example of Aredos (I'm sure Padraic will provide us with
>another example of Tallarian if we ask nicely. What does Tallarian mean,
>BTW?). This is one of many Aredos proverbs:
>ne ommis cuí caenans habent, caenatores senti "Not all who have flutes are
Tallarhas is what they call themselves, which is a compound meaning
"lords of the land". [tallar, land; arhus, lords]. [j] becomes [h], so
[arjo-] > [arhU-]. The rightest name for the language might be
Tenchhar Arusa, or Lordly Tongue; Tallarian(a) is simply the local
Roman name for the language, since the Romans there are big on history
and culture and linguistics; and they have the universities to put
Literally, the above would be:
(asomti) hhamawarhirus-na alomas wasememt hhamar-can.
(are) flautists-and.not at.all resting flute-the
[as'Umti ,xamawarhir'USn@ ,alUmas 'was@m@mt 'xamarkan]
There is no verb for "have", so the locution "it rests at" with the
locative or dative is used; in this case dative, because there is no
loc. plural. Thus: "They are not flautists, to all (there is) resting
a flute." This kind of resting is always M-P. The big long word breaks
down as "flute-doing-man/woman".
hhamar ['xamar] is a borrowing from a substrate language, meaning
"lovely sound" used specifically for side blown flutes. The end blown
sort are called fflaahostar ['Pla:ho(s/S)tar], meaning "blow-bone".
Both are neuter gender and are thus in the -r declension (like English
"water" or better ON "vatr"). The only case ending found in this class
is the gen. sing. -usa; whereas all the other forms are bare stems
This post also has examples of all three 'h' sounds in T. Linguists
call them h1, h2 and h3. The first is the simple [h], romanised as h,
and derives from certain voiceless sounds, IE kw being the most
prominent. The second is "barred h", a rather back-of-the-throat
pharyngeal (I think all the terms are right), romanised chh, and
derives from certain voiced sounds, like IE gh. The third is [x], and
is romanised hh, and is derived from adstrate [g].