Re: The lost indo-european tongue (was: the lost romance tongue)

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, yl-ruil wrote:

>On Monday, January 31, 2000 2:24 AM raccoon wrote:
>
>> > moigator = change- present 3rd person singular mediopassive indicative
>> > moigamosae = change- present 1st person plural passive indicative.
>>
>> This and Padraic's IE language look really cool, but then I'm a PIE buff.
>> However, I thought there was only one passive-like voice in PIE, called
>> variously middle, passive, or mediopassive depending on which daughter
>> language one is referring to. Non?
>
>Indeed. As far as I know PIE only had two voices: active and mediopassive
>(note that mediopassives in -r are a particularly archaic feature found in
>Celtic - the welsh impersonal inflection - and Latin, and of course Aredos).
Also retained in Kernu (Romance conlang).

>However, following Sanskrit (which has active, mediopassive and passive) and
>ancient Greek (likewise), I added the passive inflection. This innovation
>dates to the early Carastic period of Aredos. It simply adds -ae to the
>person ending (note ae = ai).
Also Hittite has forms in -r, if I remember right. Tocharian as well.

>Here's another example of Aredos (I'm sure Padraic will provide us with
>another example of Tallarian if we ask nicely. What does Tallarian mean,
>BTW?). This is one of many Aredos proverbs:
>ne ommis cuí caenans habent, caenatores senti "Not all who have flutes are
>flautists".
Tallarhas is what they call themselves, which is a compound meaning
"lords of the land". [tallar, land; arhus, lords]. [j] becomes [h], so
[arjo-] > [arhU-]. The rightest name for the language might be
Tenchhar Arusa, or Lordly Tongue;  Tallarian(a) is simply the local
Roman name for the language, since the Romans there are big on history
and culture and linguistics; and they have the universities to put
them in.

Literally, the above would be:

(asomti) hhamawarhirus-na  alomas wasememt hhamar-can.
(are)    flautists-and.not at.all resting  flute-the

[as'Umti ,xamawarhir'USn@ ,alUmas 'was@m@mt 'xamarkan]

There is no verb for "have", so the locution "it rests at" with the
locative or dative is used; in this case dative, because there is no
loc. plural. Thus: "They are not flautists, to all (there is) resting
a flute." This kind of resting is always M-P. The big long word breaks
down as "flute-doing-man/woman".

hhamar ['xamar] is a borrowing from a substrate language, meaning
"lovely sound" used specifically for side blown flutes. The end blown
sort are called fflaahostar ['Pla:ho(s/S)tar], meaning "blow-bone".
Both are neuter gender and are thus in the -r declension (like English
"water" or better ON "vatr"). The only case ending found in this class
is the gen. sing. -usa; whereas all the other forms are bare stems
(-r/-n variable).

This post also has examples of all three 'h' sounds in T. Linguists
call them h1, h2 and h3. The first is the simple [h], romanised as h,
and derives from certain voiceless sounds, IE kw being the most
prominent. The second is "barred h", a rather back-of-the-throat
pharyngeal (I think all the terms are right), romanised chh, and
derives from certain voiced sounds, like IE gh. The third is [x], and
is romanised hh, and is derived from adstrate [g].

Padraic.